The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe • Hacker News Board

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#51

Post by vkou » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #31

joelbluminator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a 28 American with an English major do a coding bootcamp and find an entry level job? I'm sure if he's reasonable intelligent and ambitious he can. There aren't that many h1b's around competing with him, most American jobs aren't h1b jobs.

For starters, H1Bs are cheaper to hire. Also, they're more desperate to stay in the US, so they won't demand too much and won't walk away from poor conditions. That also fixes with the population issue since middle class Americans can't really afford to have kids.

> For starters, H1Bs are cheaper to hire.

As an H1B, I am paid squarely in the middle of the pay band of my co-workers that share my performance rating and ladder level. If you combine that with all the immigration-related legal expenses my employer is racking up, I cost more then the average employee, here.

I ask - just because there's some shitty headshops that illegally employ H1Bs at below-market rate, don't generalize that to the entire population of visa-holders.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#52

Post by mikeash » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #48

mikeash wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the dealer is buying at 80% and selling at 110% of some number then surely that means that number is not actually fair market value?

I am disputing the existence of that number. If two parties enter into an agreement to exchange X for Y, and no one has a gun to their head, then the market value of X is Y at that time for that party, and the market value of Y is X at that time for that party.

If there isn’t really such a number then surely the scare quotes are completely appropriate?

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#53

Post by asark » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

zeperoni wrote: post #24

Dude2040 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically cross-train on private sector money and time. There should be a "don't follow your dreams" social campaign.

That's difficult when there is a motivation and purpose glut. Lot's of people/kids struggling to find connection and purpose. They hope they can achieve this through higher learning.

An alienation epidemic. Everyone wants a job that's at least one of: personally meaningful, or clearly helpful to others. Also it should pay the bills well enough to gain you housing somewhere with decent schools. Good friggin' luck.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#54

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #4

robohoe wrote: post #2

One thing that I noticed in this article and charts was the unprecedented growth of auto loans. They too have skyrocketed. That seems like another "bubble" waiting to happen.

In the last twenty years, new vehicle prices have doubled. My eyes just about roll out of my head when I see what the sticker price is for a new truck or minivan. I assume people must be leasing more than they used to, because I can't see any other way to get the payment down into a palatable $500/month range.

Buying new is basically a fools game now. Take note of vehicles with proven longevity and snatch them up when the depreciation makes them affordable.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#55

Post by jogjayr » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #31

joelbluminator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a 28 American with an English major do a coding bootcamp and find an entry level job? I'm sure if he's reasonable intelligent and ambitious he can. There aren't that many h1b's around competing with him, most American jobs aren't h1b jobs.

For starters, H1Bs are cheaper to hire. Also, they're more desperate to stay in the US, so they won't demand too much and won't walk away from poor conditions. That also fixes with the population issue since middle class Americans can't really afford to have kids.

> For starters, H1Bs are cheaper to hire

Citation needed, because this is a sweepingly broad statement. To hire an H1B you need to pay the prevailing wage, usually at least $60k, which is more than an entry-level non-STEM college grad is going to be paid outside the Bay Area (it should still be increased to something like $90-95k IMO but that's a different issue).

In addition to that, there are thousands of dollars in legal fees. And of course the application has to win the lottery (which happens in April) and then be approved for the visa (which starts in October). Which means you have to wait at least 7 months after extending an offer for the employee to start.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#56

Post by mdorazio » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:14 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #4

robohoe wrote: post #2

One thing that I noticed in this article and charts was the unprecedented growth of auto loans. They too have skyrocketed. That seems like another "bubble" waiting to happen.

In the last twenty years, new vehicle prices have doubled. My eyes just about roll out of my head when I see what the sticker price is for a new truck or minivan. I assume people must be leasing more than they used to, because I can't see any other way to get the payment down into a palatable $500/month range.

Some quick numbers here. Inflation over the last 20 years was about 54%, so I would expect an apples-to-apples vehicle to cost that much more today than it did in 1999. If you look at the CPI-based numbers for cars from 2000 to 2019, in real dollars it's barely gone up [1].

I think what you're seeing is that the cars getting advertised, and more specifically the cars that you want are more expensive than they used to be because auto makers are trying to boost margins in a shrinking market by pushing fancy features and higher-end models. But if you look at base-model sedans, they've stayed pretty close in price over the last two decades.

[1] http://www.in2013dollars.com/New-cars/price-inflation

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#57

Post by _carl_jung » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #47

_carl_jung wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think is more valuable knowledge, solving for x or summing the columns in an excel spreadsheet?

Solving for x, because it actually rewires your brain to think logically vs typing a pre-built function with zero understanding. Besides, a huge part of programming is thinking about variables.

OK, maybe bad examples. My point is that it's underemphasised in school.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#58

Post by war1025 » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #31

joelbluminator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a 28 American with an English major do a coding bootcamp and find an entry level job? I'm sure if he's reasonable intelligent and ambitious he can. There aren't that many h1b's around competing with him, most American jobs aren't h1b jobs.

For starters, H1Bs are cheaper to hire. Also, they're more desperate to stay in the US, so they won't demand too much and won't walk away from poor conditions. That also fixes with the population issue since middle class Americans can't really afford to have kids.

Middle class Americans can absolutely afford to have kids. People in certain metros maybe can't afford it, but living there is often a choice they explicitly make, or at the very least talk themselves into. Sure you make half as much working somewhere else, but the cost of living is also a quarter as much.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#59

Post by oceanghost » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

lemcoe9 wrote: post #26

joelbluminator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a 28 American with an English major do a coding bootcamp and find an entry level job? I'm sure if he's reasonable intelligent and ambitious he can. There aren't that many h1b's around competing with him, most American jobs aren't h1b jobs.

Why is "do a coding bootcamp" the common refrain from tech workers trying to help non-tech people?

It's the commodification of the profession.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#60

Post by danaris » Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #48

mikeash wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the dealer is buying at 80% and selling at 110% of some number then surely that means that number is not actually fair market value?

I am disputing the existence of that number. If two parties enter into an agreement to exchange X for Y, and no one has a gun to their head, then the market value of X is Y at that time for that party, and the market value of Y is X at that time for that party.

Many guns are not physical or tangible.

"I could literally survive the next 10 minutes without buying this" is not the same thing as "if I don't buy this soon, my life will not be significantly worse off."

Poverty's not known for opening up options for people.