It's strange that stories from the progressive end of this discussion get (often rightfully) flagged into oblivion in seconds, but this conservative campus panic story survives to 45 comments.
Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
51–60 of 198 posts
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't disagree. But, at a time when the cost/benefit ratio of college is challenged every day in popular discourse, maybe colleges have no choice but to embrace "The customer is always right" as a fundamental value.
The difference here is that the college appears to have actively taken part in the protests, as opposed to merely letting them happen.
Yeah, and that's how a college can really show some hustle and outcompete. I mean, imagine an idealistic 12th grader with a social justice bent. Does she choose a college that merely pays lip service to her righteous values, or does she choose one that jumps right into the trenches alongside her, blasting a megaphone and waving a giant sign?
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#53It sounds like you're taking a very one sided perspective in evaluating this. The story is pretty clear - a black kid stole product, the owner tried to protect his product, the kid cried racism, the college called racism, the college encouraged and orchestrated protests, the college financially intervened by removing contracts with the business, etc.
Since when is someone not entitled to protecting their property? He didn't come out shooting a gun, he came out and got jumped. The school said it was racial profiling - even though no one denied it was theft. What side of the story is missing here? More personal testimony that the intervention was racially based? There's just nothing more to the story that could make this balance out.
I think your reluctance to take the facts at face value and instead say "well what if this really was racist" is exactly the indoctrination that schools like this have fostered. It's like back in the day when people did this kind of crap to ruin black businesses and thinking "well what if we don't know the full story behind their behavior?" Sure maybe there was a valid justification for the hateful behavior, but apply the logical razor.
Racism seemed to be getting a lot better about 10 years ago and since then it seems to have taken a turn. Now it's seemingly in vogue to hate on whites. Don't doubt that there are people out there who think that's a good thing, but consider that the next time the pendulum swings it won't still be the same race being targeted. Do we want to have another Jim Crow era in 2030 where we collectively hate blacks like is so popular to do to whites now?
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#54An article solely about Oberlin college, at best, only shows that Oberlin college is losing their way.
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#55There wasn't just a demonstration (tho even that would be overdone considering the kid was shoplifting wine - which is a crime and it's not like he was just trying to get some food to survive.) This was deliberate and repeated attempts to libel a store owner out of business or into inane submission. Imagine if your family owned and operated a business for over 100 years, only for it to be dismantled because you rightfully tried to protect your property from theft.
Sounds like you have been indoctrinated by the same hate these colleges are peddling. No not all colleges do this, but 1/10 is too much. These are institutions which should be educating and enlightening, not promoting ignorance of circumstance and leading witch hunts.
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#56It's strange that stories from the progressive end of this discussion get (often rightfully) flagged into oblivion in seconds, but this conservative campus panic story survives to 45 comments.
I'm not sure what you mean by "this discussion", but if you mean ideology in general, HN has had plenty of stories from progressive perspectives on the front page. This is an area where perceptions are particularly unreliable. Each side tends to feel that the site is biased against their side, often quite passionately.
We sometimes turn off flags on stories that are substantive and interesting and where there's hope for a thoughtful discussion. Sometimes those stories have one ideological polarity, sometimes another.
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#57A bit more factual context: 1. The student "protests" erupted the day after the 2016 election results came in, with a corresponding politically inflammatory element at work in the background. 2. The underlying incident involved an underaged black student who attempted to buy a bottle of wine, was refused, and was then found to have 2 other bottles under his coat as he walked out. When the owner's son chased him out,…
How are these people not in jail for kicking a man on the ground?
On top of theft at that.
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll heartily endorse Legal Insurrection's coverage, but with the caveat that they've got a bone to pick against "social justice" and leftist campus activism. It doesn't seem to get in the way of them reporting all the relevant facts in a fair way.
interesting. opposition to "social justice" signals an opposition to fairness and equality, and theoretically should be rare. i wonder if it's the strain of opposition that sees it as zero-sum and resists (i.e., "if things get fairer for the disadvantaged, then i, as an advantaged person, must necessarily lose something")? or the strain that resists social normalization (e.g., i should be free to offend and belittle…
Qualifying “justice” makes it not justice. Is any student at Oberlin substantially “disadvantaged” or are they playacting a story they tell themselves?
The situation reminds me of the part in Foster-Wallace’s address to Kenyon college where he described his default negative mindset toward folks who drive gas guzzling SUVs. The audience hoots and applauds the viewpoint and Foster-Wallace has to stop them saying no, no, my point is to break out of that mindset. Similarly to the Kenyon crowd, my guess is that the Oberlin crowd didn’t pause a moment to step out of their default mindset and realize that their pursuit of “social justice” drove them to injustice.
Best listened to rather than read:
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#59It's strange that stories from the progressive end of this discussion get (often rightfully) flagged into oblivion in seconds, but this conservative campus panic story survives to 45 comments.
The 8chan warrant story is still on the 2nd page after a whole day, and wasn't flagged.
And this story is about a $887 million institution pressuring a working-class assault victim to drop charges against their attackers, by using libel and economic sanctions.
So what makes this story 'conservative'? That the victim was white?
Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my own experience, no, at the top universities the upper middle class demographic is far more concerned about lining up high paying jobs, networking, and/or working on their general social status than any sort of political activism at all. The activism comes from other groups, if even then. Maybe at small liberal arts colleges or less elite institutions your viewpoint might be true, but I can't speak for that.
Reading this I can't help but wonder where people graduating from Oberlin get jobs. Maybe as political campaign people or marketing or something? Just picturing someone walking into a large cement plan for an interview. "Why yes, I do believe I can pull this company into the black within 3 quarters. As you see I have a degree from Oberlin college...". Point being, graduating from there seems it could be not a positiv…
... entry level new graduates don't go into interviews making pitches about how they'll impact revenue numbers. Things like that come a decade or more later, after they have learned a whole bunch of stuff about their chosen field and forgotten most of what they thought they knew in school. That's pretty much the whole point of that decade of experience.
I'm always confused by this desire to judge entry level young people as if they are experienced mid career professionals.