Live data from Hacker News

Let's make them pay for using our personal data

amortizedcost.net

51–60 of 122 posts

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't thought it through much, but on the face of it I like the idea of receiving some compensation whenever my data is _resold_, plus a way for me to see _where_ my data has been resold, maybe even a notification. It's a bit like a songwriter receiving a royalty whenever their song is played on the radio or in public (see https://www.prsformusic.com/ ). Obviously this would be a challenging thing to implement.

here's the way this generally works for music: 1. a musician joins one or more "guilds" and pays dues. there are three major musicians guilds in the US. 2. a public venue pays subscription fees to one or more guilds. 3. the venue is licensed to broadcast music by any of the guilds' members. 4. the guild divides monies from venues proportionally amongst its members, with proportions based largely on the musician's pop…

"user data for advertising purposes doesn't really have differences in value; to an advertiser, data about one person is just as valuable as data about another person."

That's not really true - there are certain coveted demographics that are worth more than others. In general your value to an advertiser is proportional to how much money you're likely to spend on their product. People with a lot of money are worth more than people without lots of money; people who are likely to spend a lot of money are worth more than people who will save it all; young people are worth more than old people (they have more years of purchases ahead of them); socially connected people are worth more than loners (they influence the buying decisions of others); and people who are easy to influence are worth more than cynics. Also certain industries have very high revenue potential, while others don't; this is why a click on [mesothelioma] or [auto insurance] can fetch over $50, while a click on [f2p games] might be a dollar or two at most.

In old-line (print & TV advertising) they could only determine this in various broad strokes (which is why you'd hear about the coveted 18-34 demographic, or pay more for primetime TV than daytime TV). On the Internet you can divide this up in much greater detail.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is the point, if you are already paying (implicitly) for using the different services, make me the one who can control it and give me the choice to opt out if I don't want to do it

You do have that control. Find an alternative service provider. Don’t like gmail? Choose fastmail.

Don't like reCaptha? Stop using 90% of websites that require login. Don't like Google Analytics? Stop using basically everything else.

The only remaining "control" is in ad and tracker blockers, and a vocal minority of the tech industry considers these tantamount to theft.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't thought it through much, but on the face of it I like the idea of receiving some compensation whenever my data is _resold_, plus a way for me to see _where_ my data has been resold, maybe even a notification. It's a bit like a songwriter receiving a royalty whenever their song is played on the radio or in public (see https://www.prsformusic.com/ ). Obviously this would be a challenging thing to implement.

here's the way this generally works for music: 1. a musician joins one or more "guilds" and pays dues. there are three major musicians guilds in the US. 2. a public venue pays subscription fees to one or more guilds. 3. the venue is licensed to broadcast music by any of the guilds' members. 4. the guild divides monies from venues proportionally amongst its members, with proportions based largely on the musician's pop…

5. The guild samples very sparsely so smaller musicians receive no compensation

6. Smaller musicians often arrange their own events and thus have to pay licensing fees to for the privilege of playing their own music, which as the guild doesn't sample the event, is not returned to the musician

Yeah, works well.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#55

Pretty sure the mechanics as detailed in the article are factually wrong. Google does not sell personal data. It collects all the personal data it can and then stockpiles it, where it becomes an asset that the company can use to build products and charge rent (largely from advertisers, but also from consumers). Selling an extremely valuable proprietary asset to competitors would be a really dumb move - the money in t…

I propose that it would require a minor change in web browsers only. Consider that we have 'incognito' and 'private browsing' sessions. The implementations are slightly different between browsers (e.g. Firefox appears to allow sharing between tabs in a window; Safari keeps each tab completely isolated), but the principle is the same. Modify the browsers so they're always in 'private' mode, and to only permit sharing once the bill is paid.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#57
post #55

Pretty sure the mechanics as detailed in the article are factually wrong. Google does not sell personal data. It collects all the personal data it can and then stockpiles it, where it becomes an asset that the company can use to build products and charge rent (largely from advertisers, but also from consumers). Selling an extremely valuable proprietary asset to competitors would be a really dumb move - the money in t…

I propose that it would require a minor change in web browsers only. Consider that we have 'incognito' and 'private browsing' sessions. The implementations are slightly different between browsers (e.g. Firefox appears to allow sharing between tabs in a window; Safari keeps each tab completely isolated), but the principle is the same. Modify the browsers so they're always in 'private' mode, and to only permit sharing…

Pageviews within an individual incognito session still share cookies. If they didn't nearly every login on the web would break. When you create an incognito session just for one specific task and then close it, this doesn't matter. When you're always in incognito mode you're back where you started: a site that you're always logged into will have all the data from any site you visit with its tracking beacon.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#58
I strongly disagree in trying to actually cost out the usage of our personal data. I think the right to privacy should be protected and that the extreme compromise of your personal thoughts is abhorrent. A market around this data would just lead to a normalization of this behavior into the socially acceptable realm. Similar to how we don't allow people to sell themselves into slavery we should prevent people from selling off their personal history.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#60
I think I looked that up like 4 years ago and found a few platforms where you could resell your data - thing is it wasn't worth much, like you could make 4 bucks a month with regular smartphone usage. Even if the data we generate is profitable it's only so when aggregated (e.g. across thousands / millions of users) so the value of a given person's data is heavily diluted. Then again maybe it isn't worth that much because the price is being set by the people collecting the data and not by the users - if there is a paradigm shift in which people become aware that they're basically working for free, maybe the value would increase ?

(I used to work in a company that was basically harvesting some users' GPS data (via a SDK / without their explicit consent) and using it to make consumer studies for retail companies so it made me think)

Post reply on HN