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A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

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Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 90s/2000s we were taunted with a nefarious “permanent record” that recorded all our evil deeds. Do they still use that on students? It even came up in a few Simpson’s episodes. Somehow I haven’t seen anyone actually be negatively affected by this supposed record.

'Internet' replaced the permanent record' and now kids who act up enough to get news coverage end up with a permanent record of whatever they did.

One minor difference: The permanent record was an official document. Twitter mobbing is a failing of our private citizens.

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#52
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will, but the school will just make policies outlawing clothing that covers facial features (or may have some already).

If they outlaw burqas, they can face lawsuits over religious freedom.

So?

New York's MO is "screw over people now and settle out of court in 10yr if you think the precedent isn't gonna go your way."

A lawsuit or twenty won't stop them. It's not their money.

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Graham has an essay on how (US) school is mostly used as a prison

"Mostly used as a prison" is a mischaracterization of that essay. The paper identified analogues between prison social behavior and school social behavior, and hypothesized that this shows that these patterns happen whenever a population is put in a society without their choice.

[deleted]

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public Schools force you to deal with a wide cross-section of society, especially compared to private schools (mainly mid to upper crust society) and colleges (people are there by choice, often after being part of the workforce and deciding to further themselves). In many ways K-12 schools are run like prisons, with administrators playing god and throwing fits when challenged about their petty actions, students trapp…

Depends on where you went to public school. My southern Bay Area public schools consisted almost exclusively of well off students because of housing prices.

Sounds like an extreme outlier, areas with such concentrated wealth which has crowded out the working class and lower-middle class are rare, most students will never attend a school like that.

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Graham has an essay on how (US) school is mostly used as a prison

"Mostly used as a prison" is a mischaracterization of that essay. The paper identified analogues between prison social behavior and school social behavior, and hypothesized that this shows that these patterns happen whenever a population is put in a society without their choice.

Is anyone truly 'part of a society's by choice though?

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mostly used as a prison" is a mischaracterization of that essay. The paper identified analogues between prison social behavior and school social behavior, and hypothesized that this shows that these patterns happen whenever a population is put in a society without their choice.

He literally call schools prisons: "What bothers me is not that the kids are kept in prisons, but that (a) they aren't told about it, and (b) the prisons are run mostly by the inmates." Source: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

A modest amount of reasoning will lead a reader to the understanding that this is a metaphor. What defines a prison:

* People are placed there involuntarily.

* Their freedom of movement is confined to the prison at all times (sometimes people serve prison on weekends, so I guess that's an edge case).

* They are put there because they are criminals (or political prisoners, in the case of corrupt countries).

* They are intended as either punitive measure or because we decide society is not safe if certain people are allowed outside of prison.

Schools do not exhibit any of these characteristics. Attendance is not mandatory, as parents can homeschool their children or take them to private schools. They don't live there, they usually only attend from morning to afternoon during weekdays. The purpose is not punitive, it's educational.

Look at the quote in context. This is where prisons are first mentioned:

> Why is the real world more hospitable to nerds? It might seem that the answer is simply that it's populated by adults, who are too mature to pick on one another. But I don't think this is true. Adults in prison certainly pick on one another. And so, apparently, do society wives; in some parts of Manhattan, life for women sounds like a continuation of high school, with all the same petty intrigues.

> I think the important thing about the real world is not that it's populated by adults, but that it's very large, and the things you do have real effects. That's what school, prison, and ladies-who-lunch all lack. The inhabitants of all those worlds are trapped in little bubbles where nothing they do can have more than a local effect. Naturally these societies degenerate into savagery. They have no function for their form to follow.

(skip one paragraph)

> The other thing that's different about the real world is that it's much larger. In a large enough pool, even the smallest minorities can achieve a critical mass if they clump together. Out in the real world, nerds collect in certain places and form their own societies where intelligence is the most important thing. Sometimes the current even starts to flow in the other direction: sometimes, particularly in university math and science departments, nerds deliberately exaggerate their awkwardness in order to seem smarter. John Nash so admired Norbert Wiener that he adopted his habit of touching the wall as he walked down a corridor.

He puts schools, prison, and high-society wives in the same bucket because they are both communities where the members of the community did not choose to be a part of that community and there is very little constructive way to increase social status. The result is that changes in status is mostly destructive: one improves one's standing by pushing others down. It's not that "schools are used as prisons".

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#57
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they outlaw burqas, they can face lawsuits over religious freedom.

Burqas are already outlawed in some parts of europe, it's dehumanizing and extremists symbol. Also by that ideology, women would not go to school anyways.

Please keep religious flamewar far away from this site.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mostly used as a prison" is a mischaracterization of that essay. The paper identified analogues between prison social behavior and school social behavior, and hypothesized that this shows that these patterns happen whenever a population is put in a society without their choice.

He literally call schools prisons: "What bothers me is not that the kids are kept in prisons, but that (a) they aren't told about it, and (b) the prisons are run mostly by the inmates." Source: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

I nicknamed my high school "City Name High School and Penitentiary" much to the dismay of my teachers and parents.

It's only gotten worse since then. We didn't even have cameras in the hallways when I was in high school.

My kids (when I have them) will not be going to a public school with cameras in the hallways. They deserve the opportunity to be kids and not be hassled for it.

Re: A NY School District Defies State, Plans To Proceed With Facial Recognition Test

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the system is subject to false positives, students will figure out a way to exploit that, e.g. marked as present when absent via 'masks', Mission Impossible-style.

> If the system is subject to false positives, students will figure out a way to exploit that, e.g. marked as present when absent via 'masks', Mission Impossible-style. I can assure you, the teams of PhDs from Stanford and MIT will address those cases. Just like how Google knows if you're clicking random ads.

I assure you that teams of PhDs have been working on it for years, same as with, e.g. cryptography. It's just a hard problem [0].

[0] https://cyber.harvard.edu/cybersecurity/Why_Information_Secu...

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