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Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

russ.app

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Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#51

Post by jsty »

jwr wrote: post #41
jsty wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For apps you install on your own machine, I think the JetBrains perpetual license model is probably my favourite so far. After a certain period you can stop paying the subscription and keep using the old version. But if you want to keep up to date with features and bug fixes, you keep paying the subscription. It just seems to align incentives on both sides quite well.

I don't think "keep using the old version" is a solution. We should accept the truth, which is that in today's computing world you can't "keep using the old version", because you will want the bug fixes, the security fixes, and you will need the software to be updated to newer OS versions.

Oh I agree that most users will want / should have the updates, but having the ability to still access an older version:

(1) means the lapsed subscriber can still access their data / functionality (at least for a while until OS compatibility issues kick in), and

(2) makes sure the developer is still actually 'earning' the subscription through updates, not just counting on data lock-in.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#52

Post by rooster8 »

danial wrote: post #43

If you're reading this, I'm so sorry this happened to you, Russ. The problem is worse than being de-ranked for your keywords. The search is downright broken. Searching for 'predictive weight loss tracker', 'predictive weight tracker', anything with 'tracker' yields no results on my phone. Removing 'tracker' and only searching for 'Predictive Weight' or 'Predictive Weight Loss' gives me only one result: Happy Scale. I…

Thanks for your support! Yes, it specifically seems like anything with the word "tracker" in it got axed. Maybe it's just a glitch?

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#53

Post by jdboyd »

segmondy wrote: post #42

Why should he hold Monopoly on search placement for the phrase "weight tracker"? The other side of this story is that another developer is now happy to be able to feed their family.

He shouldn't get a monopoly, but going from 1 to not in the top 400 overnight is suspicious. Not that Apple ever promised that wouldn't happen. But it is probably worth complaining about publicly in case that helps shake something loose.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#54

Post by LargeWu »

segmondy wrote: post #42

Why should he hold Monopoly on search placement for the phrase "weight tracker"? The other side of this story is that another developer is now happy to be able to feed their family.

There's a pretty wide canyon between "has a monopoly on a phrase" and "drops from long-term #1 to virtually unlisted overnight". Moving up and down organically in search is normal and to be expected. Suddenly going from #1 to completely missing in results should not be expected.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#56

Post by nodamage »

laurentrivard wrote: post #5

That's terrible and really puts indie developers at risk. One small change on Apple's side and your business might not survive. Hope Apple fixes it quickly!

This is a risk that has always existed and is not particularly new - how many web-based businesses have died due to changes in Google's search algorithms, for example?

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#57

Post by andrekandre »

benmdi wrote: post #34
_bxg1 wrote: post #29

This is a good argument for having multiple app stores. I don't totally blame Apple's devs here: it's completely imaginable that small, innocent changes in what's no doubt an enormous codebase could have totally unpredictable effects on individual search rankings. The problem is that there's only a single point of articulation. If half a dozen app stores all got search results "mostly right", then little variations l…

Yeah, I agree. I hope the legal system forces Apple to allow opt-in third party app stores. Would go a long way towards alleviating these kinds of situations.

personally, i don’t want any more “stores”...

like social media,i don’t think we don’t need multiple committees and algorithms deciding to delist or not, what we need is a totally decentralized way to sign and notarize an app (to prove it doesn’t contain any malware etc) and provide it from ones own website (as an option)

worst case google changes their algorithm, you can still send an email, print and ad, make a poster for on the train whatever and people can go to your website etc

i would prefer that much more than relying on just app stores

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#58

Post by thinkharder »

groovybits wrote: post #50
britch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this analogy, but there are some pretty big differences between a supermarket and the app store. The "aisle" on the app store goes on for miles. Sure the product may be there, but if it's a 5-10 minute walk down the aisle to get to it, I don't think may people would look that far. The item is technically there, but it's not exactly accessible. In this example there's also only one supermarket, the Apple app st…

> In this example there's also only one supermarket, the Apple app store. My argument was simply about who is responsible for promoting the app. But your point is correct. My response to this: Would having multiple app stores available on iOS really solve the issue that OP is experiencing? If iOS suddenly allowed a user to download apps from multiple different stores, would the number of app downloads for OP increase…

I think both the multiple app store and 'apple isn't responsible for promoting your app' are both red herrings. The issue is that the search function in the app store lies to end users. To use the example in the article, if I go to the app store and search for "weigh loss tracker" I get 5 result, none of which is Happy Scale. The default sort is 'relevance', whatever that means, but i can change that to Most Popular. Still no Happy Scale. If I search for "Happy Scale" i get no result. From my perspective as an end user of the App Store, I'm being lied to. The search is not returning honest results that correspond to what I search for. This is not what the end user expects of search, they expect true organic results based on what they searched for, or at worst, a complete list with the apps Apple wants to promote at the top. In this case they are getting a curated subset of those results and not being told this is the case. Also, consider that the app store is unusable without search. There are million of apps, so is no way to browse it to find what you're looking for. If search doesn't return it, it might as well not exist in the app store.

Unless this is thoroughly explained somewhere in the dev documentation, then developers are being lied to also.

People threw a fit when Google changed the search result UI so that it became impossible to tell paid results from organic results. This is similar but worse. Google just put the paid results above the organic ones. Apple completely removes the organic results at their whim.

The author should have been promoting the app thru multiple channels and not relying on the app store search exclusively, this was an obvious mistake. This doesn't justify what Apple did though. It's their app store, and they can do what they want, but this, although legal, is pretty sleazy IMO.

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#59

Post by [deleted] »

benmdi wrote: post #3

Wow. I literally use this App every single day. I think it was $5 and I have gotten enormous value from it for 3+ years. Sad that what is probably a random glitch on Apple's part can just kill a person's livelihood overnight. I used to be a full time iOS contractor but have moved away from it in the last couple of years. Dealing with this kind of junk is one of the main reasons why. I have lots of similarly frustrati…

[deleted]

Re: Delisted Overnight: A Cautionary Tale for Indie iOS Developers

#60

Post by bitL »

rooster8 wrote: post #52
danial wrote: post #43

If you're reading this, I'm so sorry this happened to you, Russ. The problem is worse than being de-ranked for your keywords. The search is downright broken. Searching for 'predictive weight loss tracker', 'predictive weight tracker', anything with 'tracker' yields no results on my phone. Removing 'tracker' and only searching for 'Predictive Weight' or 'Predictive Weight Loss' gives me only one result: Happy Scale. I…

Thanks for your support! Yes, it specifically seems like anything with the word "tracker" in it got axed. Maybe it's just a glitch?

Maybe change "tracker" to "monitor" until they fix it? I usually search for both when it comes to fitness/diet and it might not be blacklisted.
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