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Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

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Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#51
post #6

There were so many more of these, many will remember HotJava but what about Oracle's entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_PowerBrowser

And you can (barely) still download and run the Amaya browser from the W3C today (that was from the mid 90s)

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#52

I remember the first time I saw Mosaic - a friend of mine was reading a digital graphic novel. I was absolutely gobsmacked at how incredible that was: not only did someone create something in a country far from mine, I was able to look at it in my home—perhaps minutes after its creation. So quickly, we become accustomed to the amazing.

My amazement about the internet and the browser when I first experience it is you can talk to someone (low latency) across the world without talking.

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#53
post #33

Looking at the second screenshot in this article (the one titled "An early CERN Web browser, circa 1990"), I feel this is what I'd like the modern web to be: crisp, clean, high density information, using colors only where it is relevant. Modern web pages have become a seizure-inducing cacophony of colors, fonts, animations, ads, videos and intrusive modals ("please sign up", "subscribe to our newsletter", "do you acc…

I'm going to get flamed for this but, if all you're interested in is the text, you could do worse than Lynx. I mean, it's not pretty, but it does get to the point. For sites that absolutely require JavaScript to load content you're screwed, but it does a surprisingly decent job on many others. Can be helpful if you need to avoid becoming distracted.

I actually used text based browsers as my main thing for a few weeks, when I had really bad internet. Ran it thru ssh on a VPS, much faster that way. I found the w3m browser gave the best formatting and mouse support.

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#55
post #34
post #26

This maybe a little off topic but... wait what? CERN had their own OS? What was its name?

NeXTStep, Steve Jobs made a company NeXT after being kicked out from Apple. This OS became the foundation of the Mac OSX. [1] Aside from NeXTStep, it was even before Linux was born. There were many historic BSD derivatives in that moment. [1]: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/473758/what-does-the-ns-...

> So in his spare time, [Berners-Lee] wrote up some software to address this shortfall: a little program he named Enquire. It allowed users to create "nodes"—information-packed index card-style pages that linked to other pages. Unfortunately, the PASCAL application ran on CERN's proprietary operating system. "The few people who saw it thought it was a nice idea, but no one used it. Eventually, the disk was lost, and with it, the original Enquire."

Sounds like this was pre-NeXT, or at least on another in-house OS. It would be interesting to see what it was all about.

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#56
post #33

Looking at the second screenshot in this article (the one titled "An early CERN Web browser, circa 1990"), I feel this is what I'd like the modern web to be: crisp, clean, high density information, using colors only where it is relevant. Modern web pages have become a seizure-inducing cacophony of colors, fonts, animations, ads, videos and intrusive modals ("please sign up", "subscribe to our newsletter", "do you acc…

> I feel this is what I'd like the modern web to be: crisp, clean, high density information, using colors only where it is relevant.

Most people want images. Most people want more than images, they want video.

You just need to look at news sites, the main Reddit page or the Facebook feed of a regular person.

What techies want is far removed from what the majority of people want.

Similar story with free products (regular people) and privacy (techies).

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#57
post #56
post #33

Looking at the second screenshot in this article (the one titled "An early CERN Web browser, circa 1990"), I feel this is what I'd like the modern web to be: crisp, clean, high density information, using colors only where it is relevant. Modern web pages have become a seizure-inducing cacophony of colors, fonts, animations, ads, videos and intrusive modals ("please sign up", "subscribe to our newsletter", "do you acc…

> I feel this is what I'd like the modern web to be: crisp, clean, high density information, using colors only where it is relevant. Most people want images. Most people want more than images, they want video. You just need to look at news sites, the main Reddit page or the Facebook feed of a regular person. What techies want is far removed from what the majority of people want. Similar story with free products (regu…

I don't believe that this is true.

What's true is that images & video are effective distractors, and most content "servers" want impressions and ad clicks. I don't think this means that most visitors/readers are necessarily looking for image-/video-heavy content.

The likes of Youtube, etc. may be an exception (where it's clear people have come to the site looking specifically for a video), but even there, the suggested videos sidebar, etc. are not things that visitors necessarily ask for/want, but rather things that benefit advertisers in terms of user attention.

This idea that techies are a different species to "normal people" is an overused red herring. Of course every user/demographic has their different preferences, but generally speaking the only difference with "techies" in this particular instance is awareness: due to familiarity with the medium, they are more deliberate in what they want—and more conscious of image-/video-heavy content being a distraction from what they're looking for—than the average user. This doesn't necessarily mean they're actually looking for different things.

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to get flamed for this but, if all you're interested in is the text, you could do worse than Lynx. I mean, it's not pretty, but it does get to the point. For sites that absolutely require JavaScript to load content you're screwed, but it does a surprisingly decent job on many others. Can be helpful if you need to avoid becoming distracted.

I actually used text based browsers as my main thing for a few weeks, when I had really bad internet. Ran it thru ssh on a VPS, much faster that way. I found the w3m browser gave the best formatting and mouse support.

When I have a slow internet connection I use the Dillo browser with CSS and image loading disabled. Dillo is also really snappy even on an old computer.

https://www.dillo.org/

Re: Before Netscape: Web browsers of the early 1990s (2011)

#59
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel this is what I'd like the modern web to be: crisp, clean, high density information, using colors only where it is relevant. Most people want images. Most people want more than images, they want video. You just need to look at news sites, the main Reddit page or the Facebook feed of a regular person. What techies want is far removed from what the majority of people want. Similar story with free products (regu…

I don't believe that this is true. What's true is that images & video are effective distractors, and most content "servers" want impressions and ad clicks. I don't think this means that most visitors/readers are necessarily looking for image-/video-heavy content. The likes of Youtube, etc. may be an exception (where it's clear people have come to the site looking specifically for a video), but even there, the suggest…

Advertisers go to where people are, not the other way around.

People didn't want MySpace, but they don't want HackerNews, either. They want Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, Reddit.

I think it's about time we accept that. People want colors, want animations, want life.

Bland, static and lifeless is as annoying to them as super colorful and dynamic.

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