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Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#51
post #25
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without political advertising, the amount of fake news spread in Groups in the form of memes and images is absolutely fracking staggering. If you go through the facebook feed of a conservative facebook user in their 50s+, you quite literally will see all lies and propaganda, and nothing real (for one ex: see the horribly faked Nancy Pelosi video that spread like wildfire yesterday, despite it's obvious fakeness)…

It's not enough to delete Facebook. In fact, if your own feed isn't full of fake news then it doesn't help. You have to get other people, especially those you aren't already in contact with, to delete it too. > bad political actors picking stories that drive unrest Unfortunately this has been endemic in the British press for as long as I have been around. The latest round is cherry-picked anti-trans articles. It's no…

It was much easier to avoid though.

Busses on the Moon was the preserve of the Sunday Sport.

The Daily Heil or Sun reliably gave anti-trans, anti-EU - always anti-something, and hard right sympathy of the "we hate the NF/BNP, but immigrants should stop..." variety, occasionally far more blatant.

Most knew what they were avoiding, as well as what they were choosing from their daily.

Now thanks to facebook illegal political advertising and fringe groups like Britain First - who Facebook took years to ban - have gained a voice that reaches a very wide audience, where everyone appears as credible as everyone else if they can play the social media game.

Until it was eventually generally known what they were, Britain First stuff was shared by all sorts of people whose main failing was believing a story or meme someone shared - because it came from someone they knew.

We either expect everyone to be deeply untrusting and cynical of their friends and family all the time - which they're not and cannot be. Or we require some standards of Facebook, finally.

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#52
post #11
post #2

"Facebook removed more than three billion fake accounts - more than ever before." Oy. How do you justify letting this issue fester that long / to that degree? How is that not an unprecedented mea culpa? Edit: I'll risk the HN "downvoting not discussed mantra" for this. BILLIONS of active fake accounts is a core competency failure, full stop. World population is single digit billions...give me a break.

Facebook could be ~100% accurate at separating real and fake accounts if they exchanged data with the government to make sure that every user had a passport / social security number / other equivalent associated with their account. Is that the world we want to live in?

There is no "the government". Many countries don't have a central population registry, or at least not an accurate one. And refugees often have no valid identifying documents.

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#53

Facebook is toxic.

Based on the number of comments already which don't even address the OP and add absolutely nothing to the discussion (including yours) so is Hacker News. Maybe the solution is for people to be less toxic, instead of blaming platforms.

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#54
post #21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think any other platforms are doing better, or is all social media inherently doomed?

To me, it's Pandora's Box. It's an information singularity. We have political information anarchy. Anyone can do a hack job on a video and get 100,000,000 views and a Presidential tweet and control a news cycle. People are afraid of "Deep fakes" but the reality is is that people are so conditioned towards accepting faked information that "shallow" (lol) fakes are already extremely effective. It's not "social media" w…

This has been freaking me out lately. I am trying to form a model of how a society would typically evolve past this situation and continue to advance and spread while maintaining humane and truly representative systems of government. So far I haven't come up with anything good.

But it is a singularity. We don't know what is on the other side. Or if there even is another side.

We are stumbling backwards into a world where a real video of a politician committing a crime in a private setting is indistinguishable from a fake one, but a citizen is 100% liable for actions captured on a government-sanctioned CCTV camera and cryptographically signed with a secret key.

I think it would be interesting to start a company around the idea of creating a certificate authority and system for provisioning and securely storing keys on a hardware level in order to sign and verify "unmodified" footage.

This would need to work both online and offline and thus require a form of device-unique secure enclave.

Offline is 2 layers of verification, your own keys and the on-device keys. Online is 3 layers of verification, those 2 keys plus a one-time key provided ad-hoc by a certificate server.

This means that users could maintain higher journalistic integrity with a video captured while online, as it could be argued that even if the device key is compromised the server-issued key would still provide some level of trust that the video is undoctored.

If this sounds of interest to anyone, get in touch.

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#55
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without political advertising, the amount of fake news spread in Groups in the form of memes and images is absolutely fracking staggering. If you go through the facebook feed of a conservative facebook user in their 50s+, you quite literally will see all lies and propaganda, and nothing real (for one ex: see the horribly faked Nancy Pelosi video that spread like wildfire yesterday, despite it's obvious fakeness)…

>> If you go through the facebook feed of a conservative facebook user in their 50s+, you quite literally will see all lies and propaganda, There are no lies or fake memes for the left?

I didn't say that, but in order to prevent a "whatabout" or "false equivalence" attack, I will state up front: Conservatives are more likely to create, spread and fall for fake news than liberals.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau4586

"Conservatives were more likely to share articles from fake news domains, which in 2016 were largely pro-Trump in orientation, than liberals or moderates"

We can speculate as to why. In my opinion, anti-intellectualism is far more virulent on the right than left. Nearly every single left-leaning politician is pro-science and accepts the scientific consensus on a broad range of issues. Conversely, most conservative politicians are anti-science, reject scientific consensus on a broad array of subjects, and consistently parrot mythology in its place. In fact it has become extremely common for conservatives to dislike and distrust higher education, academia, and research all together. It is a common trope in conservative media to attack scientific research as "pointless" and "expensive" and to use religious leaders to discuss intellectual or scientific topics.

Any ideology which preaches anti-intellectualism and mythology over science, evidence, etc, is necessarily more vulnerable to being co-opted in other evidenceless subjects.

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#56

Facebook is toxic.

Based on the number of comments already which don't even address the OP and add absolutely nothing to the discussion (including yours) so is Hacker News. Maybe the solution is for people to be less toxic, instead of blaming platforms.

"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents."

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#57
post #7

During the recent Australian election there were a number of Facebook advertisements by political figures which were completely false e.g. Labor party imposing a death tax. And given that the election result was pretty close it could've easily have made a difference. So I couldn't care less whether Facebook culled 3 billion profiles or not. What I need is for Facebook to make the hard choice and stop allowing politic…

Even without political advertising, the amount of fake news spread in Groups in the form of memes and images is absolutely fracking staggering. If you go through the facebook feed of a conservative facebook user in their 50s+, you quite literally will see all lies and propaganda, and nothing real (for one ex: see the horribly faked Nancy Pelosi video that spread like wildfire yesterday, despite it's obvious fakeness)…

"conservative facebook user in their 50s+"

I have two additional theories for why the boomers are more prone to spreading fake news.

Maturity

Every person, demographic adopting a new media has to go through the whole maturity cycle anew. We've all been there. (For me it was CompuServe, BIX, FidoNet.) We've always had trolls, memes, jokes etc. So netiquette and its predecessors emerge. It takes a while for the novelty to wear off, cooler heads to prevail.

Entertainment Becomes Reality

Boomers are bored. One article I read quoted a few boomer trolls who regarded fake news as funny, a way to pass the time. No different than the supermarket tabloids.

--

Alas.

Like when the AOL noob tsunami flooded the web, obliterating the indigenous culture, there's a huge cohort of boomers adopting Facebook. Fed and supported by boomerbots, of course, they're having an outsized impact.

More sadly, I fear most boomers are no longer teachable, more so as they age. So they're not likely to adapt or develop their own netiquette. I've all but stopped talking politics with my older relatives. Because they have no memory of prior discussions. Just like Groundhog Day.

Lastly, how we talk changes how we think. Propaganda works. This is more than confirmation bias feedback loops (mentioned elsewhere). This is something like brainwashing. My mom's boyfriend got her watching Fox News and cable news. She's transmuted from educated, progressive, liberated powerful woman (earned a masters degree, marched in DC to support abortion rights) to almost complete dittohead. This "captured by a cult" story is sadly common.

--

The only remedy I can think of is turn off their TVs, log them off facebook. Keep them distracted with knitting, puppies, and church.

My elders are now basically shut ins. Plugged into the TV. They'll happily watch happy shows, like Antique Roadshow, nature shows, cooking.

But when the nontoxic programming ends, they go back to the default channels of Fox News, CNN, and manufactured outrage.

I tried to figure out how to reprogram their TVs, cable boxes to exclude the toxic stuff.

But what's needed is an eldercare streaming TV apps. Like parental controls, but for our parents instead of our kids.

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#58

During the recent Australian election there were a number of Facebook advertisements by political figures which were completely false e.g. Labor party imposing a death tax. And given that the election result was pretty close it could've easily have made a difference. So I couldn't care less whether Facebook culled 3 billion profiles or not. What I need is for Facebook to make the hard choice and stop allowing politic…

Facebook shouldn't handle political advertising any differently than any other private media outlet like a newspaper or cable TV channel. And what is "political advertising"? Are issue advocacy ads political?

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#59
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook could be ~100% accurate at separating real and fake accounts if they exchanged data with the government to make sure that every user had a passport / social security number / other equivalent associated with their account. Is that the world we want to live in?

That's not the point and it's not even related to the discussion. I'm not sure why you are trying to bring in Big Brother nonsense. The fact of the matter is that there are only 7 billion people on earth, and Facebook had a whopping 3 billion fake accounts. So how did they let it hit 0.5, 1,2 and 3 billion fakes before doing something? Surely with all their algorithms and AI/ML/Data Scientists they could have interve…

This is only for the last six months. They aren't letting the issue fester, but rather there are enough bad actors out there to try 3 billion times to create fake accounts. They are probably deleting 1000s of accounts per day that they detect to be fake

Re: Facebook: Another three billion fake profiles culled

#60
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point and it's not even related to the discussion. I'm not sure why you are trying to bring in Big Brother nonsense. The fact of the matter is that there are only 7 billion people on earth, and Facebook had a whopping 3 billion fake accounts. So how did they let it hit 0.5, 1,2 and 3 billion fakes before doing something? Surely with all their algorithms and AI/ML/Data Scientists they could have interve…

This is only for the last six months. They aren't letting the issue fester, but rather there are enough bad actors out there to try 3 billion times to create fake accounts. They are probably deleting 1000s of accounts per day that they detect to be fake

3 billion in 6 months isn't "1000s...per day". It's ~17 million per day, all caught only after the fact.

I stand by my characterization of "festered".

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