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Buying an IBM Mainframe

blog.mainframe.dev

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Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#51

Post by bluecmd »

leokennis wrote: post #37
dx034 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you get to that uptime with a well-configured cluster? I tried to find more information but couldn't find any other reasons why mainframes would still be the best option for a newly designed system?

Also, with Mainframe, you’re not only using a different machine but also a different “everything”. You need specialized storage, you need to use an “exotic” programming language, you need people who know JCL, RACF, DB2 etc., for a lot of “middleware” (CD pipeline, access management, version control) you have limited vendors to choose from so you’ll pay a lot for that too. So if you are also running something else (Li…

That is not really 100% true. You can certainly run z/OS if you want, and that incurs those costs you mentioned - but that is true if you want to run Windows as well for example.

However, the biggest thing to remember is that you can and should run Linux on these things as well. Linux on z, or zLinux as it for some reason is called, is just Linux on the redundant and fault tolerant mainframe hardware. Anyone with Linux experience could manage it really, and you would get a pretty damn good platform to build a high availability service on.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#52

Post by new4thaccount »

bluecmd wrote: post #34
dx034 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you get to that uptime with a well-configured cluster? I tried to find more information but couldn't find any other reasons why mainframes would still be the best option for a newly designed system?

Author here, I might write a blog article about that because it is really quite interesting. The TL;DR is that some might want to rather run 1 or 2 systems (mainframe) instead of 100 physical machines (conventional distributed cattle system). Now, IBM does make it quite expensive but the mainframe has some pretty cool features like pay-for-what-you-use (which you of course get with the cloud, but not so much if you a…

It does sound interesting, so please do.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#53

Post by bluecmd »

tyingq wrote: post #46
_lwad wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be amazed at how little the underlying ecosystem has changed over the decades. Because it basically keeps compatibility forever, software that was written in the 60's can still run on modern machines. Because of this, learning using 80's software in the mainframe world is not too bad. For example, I keep a book on MVS on my desk from the 80's for reference, and most of the time it suffices for what I need to co…

At a high level, I suppose, but for example...3.8j is 24 bit versus the current z/os 64 bit.

Indeed, the 16 MiB virtual memory space is kind of limiting for anything remotely modern :-).

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#54

Post by bezoisevil »

dx034 wrote: post #9
cominous wrote: post #4

Is it just for the fun or is there actually a legit use case for having a mainframe at home apart from accelerating climate change?

I'm not even sure if there are still use cases where companies use main frames for newly developed systems. Even core banking systems can be build without using a main frame.

Lol you're way off

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#55

Post by aphrax »

bluecmd wrote: post #32
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He lists 'Datacenter setup' in his bill of materials at the end so it likely won't be kept at home.

Correct, it will run at https://datacenterlight.ch using 100% renewable energy. It the least I can do to offset the ~3 kW everything (z114 + dasd + everything else) will consume.

Is that a one off cost? Is there a yearly cost for keeping it in the datacenter?

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#56

Post by bezoisevil »

Nextgrid wrote: post #6
cominous wrote: post #4

Is it just for the fun or is there actually a legit use case for having a mainframe at home apart from accelerating climate change?

Fun and learning. I doubt there’s a legit use-case for a mainframe even in business environments. All the “reliability” it gives you can be re-implemented on commodity hardware and still come out ahead compared to the costs of buying & maintaining a mainframe.

I work for a Fortune 20 and you couldn't be more off.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#57

Post by jussij »

Koshkin wrote: post #45
glogla wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty solid space heater.

Does all the energy get converted to heat? What about “useful work”?

The law of Conservation of Energy says all that input electrical energy going into the system has to be accounted for in the form of some other energy.

Now the only thing moving will be the fans and the hard disks, which means only a very little of that input energy will be converted to kinetic energy.

The system will not be storing energy, meaning none of the input energy is being converted to potential energy.

Now some energy will be lost in the form of noise and light emitted from the leds and monitors etc.

So that only leaves the radiated energy (i.e. the heat) produced by the system.

I would think that heat component would make up the largest portion of that energy pie.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#58

Post by bluecmd »

aphrax wrote: post #55
bluecmd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, it will run at https://datacenterlight.ch using 100% renewable energy. It the least I can do to offset the ~3 kW everything (z114 + dasd + everything else) will consume.

Is that a one off cost? Is there a yearly cost for keeping it in the datacenter?

There is recurring costs as well, something like $400/mo in power usage bills, and another $400 in internet and space rental fees per month. The folks over at the datacenter have been very happy to have me so there might be some discounts in there as well, but I am not sure. My goal was to keep the recurring cost as low as I can, and compared to what hosting a beast like this in a conventional datacenter would cost I'd like to think it's a pretty good deal.

Given that it generates like 10k BTU/hr or something like that the drain on the datacenter is non-trivial, so I a running cost was to be expected.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#59

Post by neverartful »

Nextgrid wrote: post #6
cominous wrote: post #4

Is it just for the fun or is there actually a legit use case for having a mainframe at home apart from accelerating climate change?

Fun and learning. I doubt there’s a legit use-case for a mainframe even in business environments. All the “reliability” it gives you can be re-implemented on commodity hardware and still come out ahead compared to the costs of buying & maintaining a mainframe.

"I doubt there’s a legit use-case for a mainframe even in business environments"

You're incorrect. The most common one is to run legacy software, and not just banks. Insurance, retail, utilities, financial, manufacturing, etc. Some companies have been around before x86 hit the scene and already had significant investments in their in-house computing infrastructure.

Re: Buying an IBM Mainframe

#60

Post by wikibob »

bluecmd wrote: post #31
dx034 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even sure if there are still use cases where companies use main frames for newly developed systems. Even core banking systems can be build without using a main frame.

Do you have a source on that new banks do not use mainframes? I'd love to learn what new banks use to talk to older banks.

check out https://monzo.com/blog/
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