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Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

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Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#51
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I agree with what I'm about to say, but the drivers need to be careful, because they might run afoul of collusion.

Since they are all independent contractors, they are "rivals" in the same industry, so with all of them cooperating to increase fares for their benefit (and based on my understanding of the law), they are technically colluding.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#52

I don't quite understand this: "The lot fills with 120 to 150 drivers sometimes for hours, waiting for the busy evening rush. " Are they saying drivers site and wait for hours to do this?

Some people actually do not want to be at home (I once had a taxi driver who drove us from Manhattan to Brooklyn, then waited for us to go home, hours later, all the while texting his family that he had to keep working).

Also, leaving the car turned off and waiting in a lucrative parking lot saves gas, wear and tear on the car, and drastically decreases the opportunities to get into an accident. All in all, it is not a bad plan. Taxi drivers have done this for years (which is, ironically, probably one of reasons Uber got started in the first place -- in SF it was almost impossible to get a cab, because so many cabbies just wanted to get airport fares).

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#53

I can think of a ton of technical ways Uber and Lyft can combat this. And they probably will. And they'll be short term happy and long term foolish. Because they're treating the symptoms, not the cause.

I assume you're proposing that the cause is 'low' wages. So let's say drivers earned an average of $50/hour. This would put them in an income bracket such that they earn more than 95% of Americans. Do you think that people would not then exploit a legal angle to bump their earn up to let's say $70/hour, if they found out a way to do so?

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#54
post #5

I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent. Seems to me it's the system working as intended, and as it should. Drivers dont want to drive for under a certain value, so they simply inform the app who adjusts the value to fulfill demand. Seems like its what you want to happen.

> I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent.

The workers are "defrauding" Capital out of greater-than-substance wages. It's bullshit, and they'll try to re-frame in in terms of customers, but that's essentially their view.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#55

Seems like a small software tweak is all it would take to obliterate this tactic, like updating surge pricing every time a driver logged in.

The whole point of surge pricing is to get more drivers on the street. If they decrease it that quickly, then there is zero incentive for a driver to leave their house and get in their car and get out on the street, because by the time they do that, the prices are back down.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#56

News flash: if you go out of your way to classify your entire workforce as contractors, you don't get to decide when they work or not. It turns out this has consequences on both sides. If Lyft wants to decide when their drivers are working, there's a process for this: 1) Hire employees 2) Give them a schedule 3) Pay them hourly plus mileage

[deleted]

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#57
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if the number is accurate but I do know how amazingly stubborn humans can be in finding a new job. I've had people refuse to quit a job that they groan about every day when I've offered them almost double the salary to work elsewhere with far better terms. Humans are risk averse and those who live paycheck to paycheck are especially so. It defies logic until you consider that their fear of the unknown +…

Maybe that’s all true, but it doesn’t really make sense for Uber/Lyft. They could go back to their job driving whenever they wanted.

You're applying a healthy dose of rationalism to this. I don't have the answer but I think there's a possibility that you can't expect rationalism when you're asking people to walk away from the major pattern in their life which puts food in their kids mouths.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#58
post #5

I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent. Seems to me it's the system working as intended, and as it should. Drivers dont want to drive for under a certain value, so they simply inform the app who adjusts the value to fulfill demand. Seems like its what you want to happen.

And it only works as long as all of the drivers in an area agree: one or two drivers who don't join the scheme, and it doesn't work.

> And it only works as long as all of the drivers in an area agree: one or two drivers who don't join the scheme, and it doesn't work.

That's much easier to organize at an airport than elsewhere, since all the drivers are required to gather together in an airport waiting area.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#59
This seems like it could also torpedo their Contractor vs. Employee argument.

Contractors get to set rates, employees don't. So you can't say they're contractors AND accuse them of committing fraud when they try to set their own rates.

Now if only someone would develop an app that does this for entire cities. The app could be their version of a union.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#60

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I agree with what I'm about to say, but the drivers need to be careful, because they might run afoul of collusion. Since they are all independent contractors, they are "rivals" in the same industry, so with all of them cooperating to increase fares for their benefit (and based on my understanding of the law), they are technically colluding.

They should just form a union. Contractors can form one - they don't get all the privileges (for example, the employer isn't legally required to bargain with them, and can retaliate against strikes) but it'd probably permit this sort of short-term work stoppage.
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