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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

51–60 of 959 posts

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#51

Soon we will have SAT advisers suggesting how to game the "adversity score" as well. - Get a summer job "because your family needed money" - Move out of your parents house for a summer "bad living conditions" - Adopt some non-binary gender temporarily "bullied for identifying as x" - CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" etc. etc.

Nails it, there are so many avenues for abuse with this and they will be abused accordingly.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that’s going to make any difference. Let’s be real here, it’s going to be based on race alone (and perhaps being gay or trans). White or Asian? You don’t suffer any adversity. Black or Hispanic? Congratulations, your score just improved by 200 points. This just sounds like the SAT board doing what school admissions boards already do: decreasing or increasing scores based on race. https://www.latimes.com/local…

How do they determine one’s race in the US? Is there a central database where everyone gets a record at birth? Otherwise what stops me from reporting myself as black?

Nothing, although if colleges accepted you under the assumption that you reported who you were honestly, and then later found out that you weren’t who you claimed to be, you might find your acceptances revoked.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#53
post #45
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Past adversity is in the past. So if someone grew up in a poor environment but you're thinking of admitting them to a good college on full scholarship, they'll soon be progressing at the rate they're capable of without the adversity. So the best predictor of future success in a good environment probably does include a correction for past adversity.

The tests are correlated with grades. You're trying to say the correlation isn't there for some subgroups. Are you basing it on anything? The same gaps that appear on these undergrad tests show up on the grad school tests such as the LSAT, GMAT, GRE etc.

Correlation between two factors doesn't tell you how to compare two sets of values. Kids who have to work after school until bedtime won't get as good grades in HS, but if no longer made to do so, may perform substantially better in college.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#54
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" Colleges are pretty wise to this trick. You aren't the first to think of it. Relatedly is legally emancipating a child so they have "no parental support" and get a bunch of grants. That doesn't work either. I suspect the colleges would get good as sussing out all those other tricks too.

Just like they were able to suss out all the student athletes who didn't actually do anything?

Considering the FBI busted the ringleader of the scam and a bunch of people are going to jail, this seems like an example of the system working.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#55

Soon we will have SAT advisers suggesting how to game the "adversity score" as well. - Get a summer job "because your family needed money" - Move out of your parents house for a summer "bad living conditions" - Adopt some non-binary gender temporarily "bullied for identifying as x" - CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" etc. etc.

The article says: > It would be calculated using 15 factors, like the relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate and poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood. The score would not be reported to the student, only to college officials. None of those suggest they're linked to individual actions like your examples are -- and that makes sense since the SAT can know the student's schools and a…

You could do three years at a great school and then cap off with one year at a bad school to grab the diploma.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#56
post #19

Presumably the SAT is meant to indicate a student's likelihood for success in a university setting; surely bumping up the scores of students based on how likely they are to be unprepared is counterproductive? This seems like it's going to set underprivileged students up for failure and deprive well-prepared students of an opportunity, no?

Why are they likely to be unprepared?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#57
post #31

Soon we will have SAT advisers suggesting how to game the "adversity score" as well. - Get a summer job "because your family needed money" - Move out of your parents house for a summer "bad living conditions" - Adopt some non-binary gender temporarily "bullied for identifying as x" - CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" etc. etc.

None of that’s going to make any difference. Let’s be real here, it’s going to be based on race alone (and perhaps being gay or trans). White or Asian? You don’t suffer any adversity. Black or Hispanic? Congratulations, your score just improved by 200 points. This just sounds like the SAT board doing what school admissions boards already do: decreasing or increasing scores based on race. https://www.latimes.com/local…

How would you reliably capture race, or sexual orientation, or gender identification — or even income — on a self-reported metric with no third-party validation? They aren't talking about sending the College Board your tax returns.

Realistically, this will be based on ZIP code and registered high school. Information that's already publicly-available. This changes nothing except potentially making neighborhood-level affirmative action more politically palatable.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#58

This, like every other similar attempt made to "equalize" the SAT, is misguided and will accomplish little. If the SAT correlates too strongly with wealth, then Collegeboard should make a better test. Make one that changes significantly every year so direct test-prep is hard. Choose different types of critical reading passages and questions each year, vary the style of the math questions - make the test different eno…

it's hard to change a test enough that it's hard to prepare for but not so much that scores can still be meaningfully compared year to year. even if kids go straight to college, there's a two year window where they could reasonably take the test and the test is offered several times per year. I don't see how they could accomplish this without severely increasing the cost of the test.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#59
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they determine one’s race in the US? Is there a central database where everyone gets a record at birth? Otherwise what stops me from reporting myself as black?

Nothing, although if colleges accepted you under the assumption that you reported who you were honestly, and then later found out that you weren’t who you claimed to be, you might find your acceptances revoked.

How would they find out my race? Based on the looks? So they would count Michael Jackson as “white”? What if a person looks white but has black ancestors?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#60
post #19

Presumably the SAT is meant to indicate a student's likelihood for success in a university setting; surely bumping up the scores of students based on how likely they are to be unprepared is counterproductive? This seems like it's going to set underprivileged students up for failure and deprive well-prepared students of an opportunity, no?

Why are they likely to be unprepared?

because (we're meant to assume at least) that's why they did poorly in the test in the first place?
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