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Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

advances.sciencemag.org

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Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#51

Post by baby »

ademup wrote: post #9
rdiddly wrote: post #2

Obviously. They are making it worse by exactly the number of trips that would otherwise have been done by transit, bike, walking or not at all. edit: or now scooters

I don't think it is so simple. Eg: people now taking extra trips because it is easy and cheap to do so. Eg: "I'll just Uber the 6 blocks to my next shopping spot" instead of walking. This happens in my friend group all the time. Plus people traveling to the city at all BECAUSE Uber makes intracity travel easy. Eg: I live in the East Bay and hate driving within the city, but am happy to be escorted around it on a whim…

If the city was denser you wouldn't have to uber from one shop to the other. But the city was built for cars.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#53

Post by jacques_chester »

javawizard wrote: post #39
_jal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no. Japanese cars are not otherwise distinguishable by their frequent mid-block stop-and-wait actions, for instance, nor for diverting commuters from public transportation.

That's fair, but a certain percentage of Uber and Lyft customers are people who would otherwise drive their own car, so any study that removes the effects of Uber- and Lyft-operated vehicles altogether paints an inaccurate picture.

The point is not (so much) the number of cars, the point is the different behaviour. Self-drivers will go as smoothly as they can from one parking location to another. Uber and Lyft drivers will loop until they get a ride and stop disruptively at the beginning and end of each ride.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#54

Post by matt4077 »

_jal wrote: post #34
kenneth wrote: post #27

> The new findings, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Uber and Lyft vehicles removed Not sure if that's actually what's going on, but if it is, it's a ridiculous conclusion. Let me rephrase: "Japanese cars are making traffic in the USA worse, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Japanese vehicles removed."

Well, no. Japanese cars are not otherwise distinguishable by their frequent mid-block stop-and-wait actions, for instance, nor for diverting commuters from public transportation.

Read the actual paper. They seem to have used two methods to make the alternative ("counterfactual") scenario more realistic than just "remove Uber cars":

- They compare increase in congestion and Uber/Lyft activity for short road segments, and show that these two changes correlate

- They compare reality to a model that does not include ride sharing, but does model increased population etc. This (generally well-regarded model) shows lower increases in congestion in a world without ride sharing.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#56

Post by karthikb »

nieksand wrote: post #6
metabagel wrote: post #3

Anytime there is no passenger in the vehicle, it's an extra vehicle on the road. Normally, our cars don't continue to drive around after we've arrived at our destination.

Your San Francisco parking experience is very different from mine.

Many of the U/L trips happen during commute hours, where someone might have a dedicated parking spot on either end -- either at home, or a monthly garage or lot.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#57

Post by Zarath »

no_username wrote: post #38
_jal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no. Japanese cars are not otherwise distinguishable by their frequent mid-block stop-and-wait actions, for instance, nor for diverting commuters from public transportation.

If you remove any amount of cars you improve traffic which is why the conclusion is weak.

I don't understand why they don't just replace the Uber vehicle with a "normal" driver then draw conclusions from that. How much worse do they make traffic compared to a "replacement driver"?

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#58

Post by narrator »

jacques_chester wrote: post #53
javawizard wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, but a certain percentage of Uber and Lyft customers are people who would otherwise drive their own car, so any study that removes the effects of Uber- and Lyft-operated vehicles altogether paints an inaccurate picture.

The point is not (so much) the number of cars, the point is the different behaviour . Self-drivers will go as smoothly as they can from one parking location to another. Uber and Lyft drivers will loop until they get a ride and stop disruptively at the beginning and end of each ride.

Their behavior is better than people circling endlessly looking for parking. If traffic is worse, but more people are getting the places they want to go faster, isn't that an improvement in the transportation system?

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#59

Post by Mirioron »

rdiddly wrote: post #2

Obviously. They are making it worse by exactly the number of trips that would otherwise have been done by transit, bike, walking or not at all. edit: or now scooters

So, we consider people being able to do something in a way they would much rather do it as a negative? If you have the choice between walking and an Uber, and you really want to walk, then just walk. If you have the choice between walking and walking, but you really don't want to walk, then you're worse off.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#60

Post by randyrand »

toast76 wrote: post #30

Anything that makes it more convenient for people to get from A to B in a _car_ will, of course, create more traffic. Convenience increases usage. Uber/Lyft may make it unnecessary for some folks to own a car, but a reduction in car ownership does not mean a reduction in car usage.

Not necessarily. Making car-pooling easier can reduce the numbers of cars while also making it more convenient to get places by car.
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