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Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#51

Post by paulddraper »

_iyig wrote: post #10
lm28469 wrote: post #9

Have you seen the harness ? [0] You might be able to strap a gps or a camera on it, but a weapon ?! What's up with all the articles "russia/china bad" popping up recently ? > In 1980s Soviet Russia, a programme saw dolphins recruited for military training Yeah, just like any nation with enough defence budget. Dolphins/sea lions [1], dogs, rats [2], &c. are used all the time. [0] https://www.sciencealert.com/mysteriou…

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad…

Meanwhile, Mexico (and other Central American countries) continue to have rampant violent gangs and political corruption, causing a constant of drugs, guns, and refugees. And undoubtedly has a greater aggregate impact on U.S. politics than a handful of Russian nationals.

Yet Mexico gets a fraction of the bad press as the Russian threat.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#52

Post by 52-6F-62 »

paulddraper wrote: post #51
_iyig wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad…

Meanwhile, Mexico (and other Central American countries) continue to have rampant violent gangs and political corruption, causing a constant of drugs, guns, and refugees. And undoubtedly has a greater aggregate impact on U.S. politics than a handful of Russian nationals. Yet Mexico gets a fraction of the bad press as the Russian threat.

Mexican refugees didn't just lose a trained Beluga whale wearing a harness. The latter being the topic of the news story.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#53

Post by azangru »

saiya-jin wrote: post #19
basetop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd stopped consuming so much cable news, it can rot your brain. And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. "English-speaking people"? What's that? Russia does bad things. China does bad things. The EU does bad things. We do bad things. What's strange is the sudden hysteria and relentless propaganda directed towards china and…

We in Europe have a very personal stake in this. The chance of China ever invading us is minuscule bordering to none, the same can't be said for Russia. They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. I have no kind word for a russians due to this, my parents and their whole generation have pretty horrible stories to tell and effects of their meddling and…

> They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia.

Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it? During the time of Cold War? With Soviet Union being, in effect the ruling center of the bloc and considering the rest of the Soviet countries its sphere of influence? I mean, it doesn't justify what Soviet Union did then, but what happened to Czechoslovakia couldn't have happened to France, or Sweden, or the UK.

Things are completely different now. Yes, even now, with the militaristic rhetoric on both sides rising to the Cold War-era level. There is no Soviet bloc. Russia is reduced in its ambitions to the level of a minor regional power.

As for Ukraine, it has the misfortune of sharing a border and a lot of common history with Russia; so much so that Russia still considers it its sphere of interest. With Western Europe things are completely different. Russia may have squabbles with Ukraine or perhaps even with Baltic states (unlikely, because they are members of NATO), but to conclude from that that other European countries are under the risk of Russian invasion is to misrepresent reality, I believe.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#54

Post by jacobush »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #13
lm28469 wrote: post #9

Have you seen the harness ? [0] You might be able to strap a gps or a camera on it, but a weapon ?! What's up with all the articles "russia/china bad" popping up recently ? > In 1980s Soviet Russia, a programme saw dolphins recruited for military training Yeah, just like any nation with enough defence budget. Dolphins/sea lions [1], dogs, rats [2], &c. are used all the time. [0] https://www.sciencealert.com/mysteriou…

Given the region, I first thought of the Swedish submarine scare and cold war panic in the 80s. Sweden, a non NATO member which didnt want to join NATO, had repeated incursions by submarines into their waters which were attributed to the soviets. It seems that wasnt the case for most subs. Instead the likely culprits were often NATO vessels. Ola Tunander worte a Book about the incidents, called "The Secret War Agains…

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that wherever the intruders came from, at least some died trying. (There were a lot of depth charges fired and moored mines detonated, sometimes on chance, sometimes as an "exercise", not only in the widely published sub hunts of the era.)

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#55

Post by jacobush »

ptr wrote: post #47
cf141q5325 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The swedish government didnt tell their population which saw dozens of submarines and went in to a panic expecting a soviet invasion. Again, the whole quote: >Many military officials and politicians said they had never heard of the NATO exercises. >``You need some sort of agreement to do a thing like this. But I know nothing of such an agreement,″ said Admiral Per Rudberg, head of the navy from 1978 to 1984. >Current…

Sweden was already expecting a soviet invasion. OK, so you're arguing that the government invited NATO without letting the navy know? That sounds incredibly risky. Again, Occam's razor.

Whatever was behind it, it didn't matter to local commanders. I know of one incident where a local officer ordered the detonation of a full line of moored mines across a strait. So if it was something there, it was a bad day for them, NATO or Soviet.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#56

Post by inflatableDodo »

sgift wrote: post #16
lm28469 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US are the good guys, never played a role in foreign countries political systems, never spied on anyone, never started wars, killed civilians in countless countries, founded terrorists organisations, &c. ? It's very easy to tell the bad guys to stop being bad, while doing the same things and pretending it's right. You don't even have to go back to MKULTRA or vietnam, it's happening right now. But be careful,…

That the US does bad things does not invalidate the bad things China and Russia do. You sound like someone who gets a speeding ticket and answers "but everyone else is speeding too! Why do you punish me?!"

>That the US does bad things does not invalidate the bad things China and Russia do.

True, but whataboutism like that only carries any weight at all because the US has been the most warlike nation since WWII.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#57

Post by CharlesColeman »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #56
sgift wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the US does bad things does not invalidate the bad things China and Russia do. You sound like someone who gets a speeding ticket and answers "but everyone else is speeding too! Why do you punish me?!"

>That the US does bad things does not invalidate the bad things China and Russia do. True, but whataboutism like that only carries any weight at all because the US has been the most warlike nation since WWII.

> True, but whataboutism like that only carries any weight at all because the US has been the most warlike nation since WWII.

Not really. Russia was de facto involved in many of those conflicts (e.g. supplying fighters and pilots to North Korea during the Korean war to fight the UN), and had many of its own (e.g. the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia, to name a few).

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#58

Post by zaro »

_iyig wrote: post #10
lm28469 wrote: post #9

Have you seen the harness ? [0] You might be able to strap a gps or a camera on it, but a weapon ?! What's up with all the articles "russia/china bad" popping up recently ? > In 1980s Soviet Russia, a programme saw dolphins recruited for military training Yeah, just like any nation with enough defence budget. Dolphins/sea lions [1], dogs, rats [2], &c. are used all the time. [0] https://www.sciencealert.com/mysteriou…

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad…

> So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad guy” right now.

So a lot of English-speaking people are falling for mass media lies. And frankly it's getting ridiculous now days. It seems that whatever US media starts pushing out ( and it's usually w/o proof ) people will just eat it up.

Not trying to defined anything here, but I kind of try to read news from all kind of source , and I can tell you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugw9h6cxmw .

Edit: formatting

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#59

Post by CharlesColeman »

Deutschland wrote: post #40
StavrosK wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it got trapped in it pretty damn neatly, with one part behind the fun and one on its "neck". It's like my dog getting randomly tangled in its chest harness with the legs in the right position.

How many whale-sized harnesses are just floating around in the sea anyway?

> How many whale-sized harnesses are just floating around in the sea anyway?

Quite a lot actually. RT was just showing a documentary about the undersea harness plants of Sweden. Apparently they are naturally made of nylon and float up from from the sea floor and attach to Beluga wales to spread their seeds throughout the sea. Absolutely nothing to do with Russia. /s

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#60

Post by saiya-jin »

azangru wrote: post #53
saiya-jin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We in Europe have a very personal stake in this. The chance of China ever invading us is minuscule bordering to none, the same can't be said for Russia. They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. I have no kind word for a russians due to this, my parents and their whole generation have pretty horrible stories to tell and effects of their meddling and…

> They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it? During the time of Cold War? With Soviet Union being, in effect the ruling center of the bloc and considering the rest of the Soviet countries its sphere of influence? I mean, it doesn't justify what Soviet Union did then, but what happened to Czecho…

> Czechoslovakia was a part of the Soviet Bloc, wasn't it?

Nope, we were a sovereign country, with socialistic/communistic government, but completely standalone. Same for Poland, Hungary, Romania etc.

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