In addition to several other examples.
C++ did it in the 80's with Lucid C++ and the ill fated Visual Age for C++ v4.0.
Eiffel also thanks to its MELT VM.
Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
51–60 of 118 posts
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#52+1 Nim is a really nice and simple language. Extremely easy FFI and Python-like. For me, using Nim and Julia to write small "scripts" for my data science (student) works (processing 10Gb-20Gb of data) makes me feel quite productive compared to something like Go (too `ugly` for me), Python (too slow)
Are there any Nim benchmarks vs. Go, Crystal, Python, Rust, etc.?
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#53I only skimmed the video, but I couldn't see him describing it doing type reloading. Perhaps that is what he is planning on implementing. It is very hard to implement (especially if you can't control the compiler) but very useful for general code reloading. Of course everything is relative, and even if I think it is "very hard" it might be a weekend project for someone else. Generally though, code reloading is one of…
If you put your mind to it just a bit (i.e., I wouldn't call this "automatic" exactly but it's not too hard to use the support the language, runtime, and libraries have), Erlang can even do a harder thing, which is update the code handling a given socket connection or something live, in a principled manner, while never dropping the connection. Since HTTP is transient, it's actually a bit easier than a raw socket sinc…
> Erlang can even do a harder thing, which is update the code handling a given socket connection or something live, in a principled manner, while never dropping the connection.
I imagine that runtime type errors is what makes this possible.
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#54To add another existing implementation of this, Naughty Dog's Lisp-based assembler could do hot code reloading, and that workflow was extensively used for developing Jak & Daxter. Plus, obviously any JIT'd language can do this but it's fair not to count that. Still, that's just splitting hairs and it's really exciting to see this in Nim. It's a great language and it's a shame that it doesn't seem to have found a real…
There are many game engines do some form of hot code reloading of the game scripting code (as opposed to engine code). Unity supports it for C#, for instance (though it's finicky, you have to program with hot reloading in mind).
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#55Looks like it's still a pre-release feature at this point. Hot code-reloading part of the talk: https://youtu.be/7WgCt0Wooeo?t=1519 RFC: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/8927 Code: https://github.com/onqtam/Nim/tree/hcr-1
> Looks like it's still a pre-release feature at this point. It has been merged to devel branch: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/10729
What's the situation with the TODOs mentioned in the presentation? Primarily, the missing standard library support cleanup ("Currently no real-world project can be built with HCR")?
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you understand why people have it in interpreted languages, why do those reasons not apply to compiled languages?
Because for an interpreted language you can use it for interactive development. I had thought different reasons would apply to a compiled language but judging by the other replies obviously not!
One can use compilers for interactive development, too. That's not a feature of being 'interpreted'.
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#57+1 Nim is a really nice and simple language. Extremely easy FFI and Python-like. For me, using Nim and Julia to write small "scripts" for my data science (student) works (processing 10Gb-20Gb of data) makes me feel quite productive compared to something like Go (too `ugly` for me), Python (too slow)
Are there any Nim benchmarks vs. Go, Crystal, Python, Rust, etc.?
You can find them although they tend to be out of date and/or piecemeal. I think they're still useful.
For example:
https://github.com/drujensen/fib
https://gist.github.com/sdwfrost/7c660322c6c33961297a826df4c...
https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks
My general sense is that Nim is most competitive as an alternative to Python and/or things like Julia, in that it's as expressive and easy to understand as those, but has performance closer to C or Rust than something like Python. Julia is similar to Nim but I think Nim seems cleaner in its implementation overall, and targets much more general use scenarios.
I've been really impressed by Nim. There are some little things that have irritated me, like case insensitivity, but I wish it got more traction in the community. Right now the only thing that it doesn't seem to have going for it is library support. For the numerical applications I do I'd prefer it over everything else, except everything else has huge resource bases, so something that's already packaged in those languages would have to be done from scratch in Nim, which isn't feasible.
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#58I really like Nim. I hope the threading interface improves though, I found it lacking last time I checked about half a year ago.
I'm curious, what more are you looking for? From the nim manual:
"Each thread has its own (garbage collected) heap and sharing of memory is restricted to global variables. This helps to prevent race conditions. GC efficiency is improved quite a lot, because the GC never has to stop other threads and see what they reference. Memory allocation requires no lock at all! This design easily scales to massive multicore processors that are becoming the norm."
To me, that sounds perfect for writing typical apps.
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#59+1 Nim is a really nice and simple language. Extremely easy FFI and Python-like. For me, using Nim and Julia to write small "scripts" for my data science (student) works (processing 10Gb-20Gb of data) makes me feel quite productive compared to something like Go (too `ugly` for me), Python (too slow)
Are there any Nim benchmarks vs. Go, Crystal, Python, Rust, etc.?
* vs many languages: https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks
* vs many languages: https://github.com/frol/completely-unscientific-benchmarks
* vs Julia and Python: https://github.com/SimonDanisch/julia-challenge/issues/1
* web frameworks vs many: https://github.com/the-benchmarker/web-frameworks
Re: Nim – Natively compiled language with hot code-reloading at runtime [video]
#60Can someone give me some pointers to reading material on this. I'm aware of hot code reloading for interpreted languages, google just gives links to web page loading. I'm also aware of it at the OS level. I don't really understand why you'd want this in a compiled language.
> Can someone give me some pointers to reading material on this. Wish I could help you with this, but I have been out of the loop with Nim recently. > I don't really understand why you'd want this in a compiled language. Quick iteration in development. Not needing to manually recompile every time you make a small change.
or recompute the data you're working with.