Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain • Hacker News Board

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#51

Post by dsr_ » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #44

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get so peeved by the treatment of chain restaurants like this as "poor" or "terrible". Because you know what, Cheesecake Factory, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Outback Steakhouse? These are some of the nicest restaurants the average citizen can hope to afford to go to more than once in their lifetime. It isn't going to impress folks who have a personal chef at home, but the food is pretty darn good , and you don't hav…

The value proposition really isn't that great. It's not any cheaper than food from a local Italian joint. What you're paying for is that Olive Garden experience, whatever that is worth to you. A good example is the Olive Garden in Times Square. It's _always_ packed despite there being better Italian places a few blocks away. Not to mention, if you're willing to hop on the subway there's significantly better Italian f…

Olive Garden's appeal in Times Square is the same as McDonald's: you're in a strange place, but you know what you can expect to find inside, and you know your kids will eat it while you have a glass of mediocre wine.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#52

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

dsr_ wrote: post #51

ng12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value proposition really isn't that great. It's not any cheaper than food from a local Italian joint. What you're paying for is that Olive Garden experience, whatever that is worth to you. A good example is the Olive Garden in Times Square. It's _always_ packed despite there being better Italian places a few blocks away. Not to mention, if you're willing to hop on the subway there's significantly better Italian f…

Olive Garden's appeal in Times Square is the same as McDonald's: you're in a strange place, but you know what you can expect to find inside, and you know your kids will eat it while you have a glass of mediocre wine.

FWIW, if you go to McDonald's in some foreign countries you will be in for a shock as they serve many region-specific items. (Though in Paris, it's a pleasant shock, it's mostly the same but all of the food is better/healthier.)

Source: Yes, I traveled to the capital of a country known explicitly for it's exquisite food and did patronize a McDonald's.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#53

Post by tsunamifury » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

dwighttk wrote: post #27

_red wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its mean spirited. "Dive bars" have always been popular. A friend of mine in college opened a dive bar, which quickly became very very popular. This was the type of place where you could smell the ammonia from the urinal when you walked in the door. Spending more than an hour in there, and you left smelling like cigarette smoke and stale beer. When opening his 2nd bar, he made the rookie mistake of "try…

everything in your description of a dive from "smell the ammonia", to "cigarette smoke and stale beer" to "spill your beer...so what" makes me feel uncomfortable.

Some people feel comfortable in Dive bars and others in the King Cole Bar.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#54

Post by tranced » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

Konryan wrote: post #40

As someone who lives in Italy, a lot of what seems to be considered "Italian" in the US sometimes feels like little more than a caricature. It does trouble me slightly, because it feels like an impersonation of Italian culture. On the other hand, it's probably just culture diverging and developing in different ways after migration, which is to be expected. So the problem is mostly one of identity: the same label - it…

I'm grateful, as an American, that we have access to so many different cultures and cuisines. It's the one thing I missed sorely when I was travelling across Europe.

You're right on the label though, Italian American =/= Italian in the same vein that Chipotle/Taco Bell isn't Mexican. However, there are plenty of institutions in the states that do nail a more purist experience of Mexican or Italian or what have you.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#55

Post by Gorbzel » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:04 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #34

cowmoo728 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheesecake Factory? They're famous for having terrible decor, service, and food, yet somehow being an essential part of the American high school prom experience. https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/dude-goes-viral-for...

I get so peeved by the treatment of chain restaurants like this as "poor" or "terrible". Because you know what, Cheesecake Factory, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Outback Steakhouse? These are some of the nicest restaurants the average citizen can hope to afford to go to more than once in their lifetime. It isn't going to impress folks who have a personal chef at home, but the food is pretty darn good , and you don't hav…

> These are some of the nicest restaurants the average citizen can hope to afford to go to more than once in their lifetime.

This is almost undoubtedly untrue.

There are many independent or local restaurants in most regions that cost the same (or less) than the chains you mention. Ethnic restaurants frequently deliver more bang for the buck. In all of these non-chain categories there are “nicer” options that deliver a better atmosphere, food, wine, whatever the citizen in question is looking for.

As for the chains, they should have at least one thing to offer: consistency. No one is faulting folks for having a guilty pleasure, or working a chain into their routine when they’re looking for a known quantity meal.

But some people never break out of the mundane that consistency brings. The types who are too afraid to try things because they’re supposedly “fancy.” Or because they don’t look like they 2nd generation immigrants who run the restaurant down the road. The kind of folks who go to a Buca in Honolulu or Applebee’s in Times Square; those places are expensive as shit, and living a life like that is truly terrible.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#56

Post by ibejoeb » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

Konryan wrote: post #40

As someone who lives in Italy, a lot of what seems to be considered "Italian" in the US sometimes feels like little more than a caricature. It does trouble me slightly, because it feels like an impersonation of Italian culture. On the other hand, it's probably just culture diverging and developing in different ways after migration, which is to be expected. So the problem is mostly one of identity: the same label - it…

Sure, but the article points out that Buca was emulating (or evoking or whatever) Italian-American, not Italian.

Maybe those things are conflated in places with no direct connections, but any Italian American with ties to Italy knows that the two are very distinct cultures.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#57

Post by phil248 » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

tranced wrote: post #54

Konryan wrote: post #40

As someone who lives in Italy, a lot of what seems to be considered "Italian" in the US sometimes feels like little more than a caricature. It does trouble me slightly, because it feels like an impersonation of Italian culture. On the other hand, it's probably just culture diverging and developing in different ways after migration, which is to be expected. So the problem is mostly one of identity: the same label - it…

I'm grateful, as an American, that we have access to so many different cultures and cuisines. It's the one thing I missed sorely when I was travelling across Europe. You're right on the label though, Italian American =/= Italian in the same vein that Chipotle/Taco Bell isn't Mexican. However, there are plenty of institutions in the states that do nail a more purist experience of Mexican or Italian or what have you.

Italian-American cuisine, including places like Buca di Beppo, are absolutely not in the same vein as Taco Bell or Chipotle. Italian-American cuisine is a unique part of a culture that arose organically from millions of Italian immigrants and their children in the United States. Taco Bell and Chipotle are culture-less money-making ventures with superficial ties to a foreign cuisine.

Tex Mex or Cajun cuisine would be a more apt comparisons.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#58

Post by asark » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #34

cowmoo728 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheesecake Factory? They're famous for having terrible decor, service, and food, yet somehow being an essential part of the American high school prom experience. https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/dude-goes-viral-for...

I get so peeved by the treatment of chain restaurants like this as "poor" or "terrible". Because you know what, Cheesecake Factory, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Outback Steakhouse? These are some of the nicest restaurants the average citizen can hope to afford to go to more than once in their lifetime. It isn't going to impress folks who have a personal chef at home, but the food is pretty darn good , and you don't hav…

Olive Garden in particular's worse than middle-high tier frozen Italian food in a bag, which comes out to the same price or cheaper. Certain dishes are worse than budget frozen Italian food that can be prepped in its container, a microwave. Granted you have to do some work for those but it's usually "heat in pan, serve" or similar. It used to be better (like, 10+ years ago) but has gotten quite a bit worse. Maybe a few dishes are better than that, but none of the ones I've ordered when I've gone in the last decade or so—one gets invited, and a place has to be damn bad before they go on my "I will risk being rude to avoid going here, and will not take the food for free" list.

Kinda like how up to a few years ago Noodles & Company was pretty good cheap food, then they doubled all their portion sizes and their food unaccountably dropped to sub-frozen-and-boxed-food quality levels and they started calling themselves "World Kitchen" or something.

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#59

Post by Stratoscope » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC

tschwimmer wrote: post #42

bpolverini wrote: post #15

As an Italian-American, this explains why every time I go to a Buca di Beppo, I feel like I'm in some kind of merger between a mediocre Italian restaurant and a minstrel show. To those of us who grew up in this culture, it's ridiculous (almost bordering on offensive). Thankfully, I grew up in communities where the Italian's could proudly go to other restaurants that were more respectful of a 3,000 year old culture. I…

I'm glad I found someone that feels that same way. I used to walk by a BdB on my way to work and I couldn't help but notice the horribly stereotypical cartoon they use as their mascot.[0] My thought experiment for this image is: Imagine how this type of caricature looks like for pretty much any other genre of restaurant (Chinese food, sushi, burritos, etc). It's probably super offensive. To me, that's a good indicato…

Aw, she reminds me of my mom, right down to the hair curlers!

My mom passed away many years ago, but I'm pretty sure she would have found it funny. She loved that kitschy stuff!

Re: Buca di Beppo, America’s Most Postmodern Red Sauce Chain

#60

Post by culturestate » Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

United857 wrote: post #50

Konryan wrote: post #40

As someone who lives in Italy, a lot of what seems to be considered "Italian" in the US sometimes feels like little more than a caricature. It does trouble me slightly, because it feels like an impersonation of Italian culture. On the other hand, it's probably just culture diverging and developing in different ways after migration, which is to be expected. So the problem is mostly one of identity: the same label - it…

Same can probably be said of any country's cuisine in America. E.g. many staples of Chinese restaurants in America (General Tso's chicken, chop suey, sweet and sour whatever) are not found in China except at super touristy places.

There are lots of...I guess I would call them "mashup cuisines" around the world, especially in post-colonial and post-WW2 Asia. Local chefs tried to recreate western dishes with their own ingredients and techniques and it made for some interesting results.

Since it's early morning as I write this, I'll use Hong Kong-style macaroni soup[1] as an example: it's literally macaroni in broth with a slice of processed ham on top and some white bread on the side. Not Chinese in the least, but now it's as much a local breakfast staple here as congee.

Also, an aside: sweet and sour pork is a legitimate Cantonese dish and it's in every Canto restaurant in China. I really miss crab rangoon sometimes, though...

1. https://medium.com/@xinwenxiaojie/in-praise-of-hong-kong-mac...