Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this mean you feel that your work is not altruistic? Would you mind elaborating on that? Some days I feel like I’d rather work for a non-profit than where I am.
Having worked in a government organization (military) for 10 years, i will guess. I think the point is not that one is not better than the other, simply that they are different. Each coin has two sides, and double edged swords cut both ways. If youre flush with cash, you might feel void of meaning. If youre helping children, you feel fulfilled but frustrated by what little it would take to accomplish so much more.
In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
51–59 of 59 posts
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I run Nafundi ( https://nafundi.com ) and we work exclusively on open source software ( https://opendatakit.org ) that improves the lives on the underserved. We are bootstrapped, remote-only, and always hiring.
Amazing work! Just curious -- what's your revenue model?
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much training do you need though: A one day class can cover "this is is normal, this is where you need help". Of course these are animals: farmers are willing to make economic decisions here. The risk/cost of a rare disease going undetected vs time to learn how to accurately diagnose it (or pay someone who has the training) is something that can be talked about.
> A one day class can cover ...probably not much more than a 1 day C++ course would offer a random person. :) That's nowhere near what a farmer needs to read much into an ultrasound. It takes a medical student years of learning (medicine) topped by a lot of practice and experience in imaging until they are useful in actually reading an image. And even a 1-2 day course costs thousands of dollars. It would be a massive…
I agree fully that a 1-day course isn’t going to be enough here. Radiologists go to school for a while to get good at both the imaging part and the interpretation part.
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Phony argument. An electronic thermometer and blood pressure monitor ensure safety too and they never need a license. Do x-ray machines need a license? This ulrasound device by definition doesn't even emit radiation. This company is conning its users.
If you actually read the FAQ on the website ( https://www.butterflynetwork.com/pricing ) you'll see that you don't need a license to continue using the product: > Your Butterfly iQ will remain functional even without a subscription. You can continue to scan in all 19 applications, but will not be able to upload new images. You will have full access to all images in the cloud that were previously saved.
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#55It has nothing to do with the phone or the software it's the device, which if you could get down to a hundred $ or so it could be used by farmers of livestock. This could be a revolution, but the Ultrasound Scanners need to be in the hands of low income farmers then imagine how quickly the dam ecosystem would develop across to humans. I've been looking to get a cheap one from China, but you can't, I'm not sure why, b…
The price of a portable ultrasound has little to do with the electronics as far as I understand it. Production of the probe's ceramic transducer is expensive.
Regarding the price of piezoelectric transducers, the typical buzzers (i.e. the flat round piezo discs) are very cheap.
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Idea 1: Using piezo buzzer elements (the piezo disks):
The piezo discs are ridiculously cheap, but large monolithic transducers. There is a trick to partition them into multiple transducers:
The piezo disc transducers are essentially: a steel membrane, onto which a thin layer of piezoelectric material is deposited, onto which a very thin and weak layer of metal is vaporized, onto which leads can be soldered (at low temperature).
The steel membrane defines the resonance frequency in its monolithic configuration, and can be thickened to make it less flexible, say by electrodeposition of copper in a copper sulfate bath, in order to make the steel membrane a more rigid base (since we are interested in the local pressures and not the global pressure which deforms the disc).
The thinnest metallic layer on top can be easily patterned even mechanically, see for example:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071214032759/http://www.geocit...
Here the single disc transducer is patterned into 4 independently transducing quadrants. For context on the motivation of that page, it is for actuating a scanning tip for a Scanning Tunneling electron Microscope (STM).
Essentially they just use a ruler and a fine blade to cut the metal layer, and then clean up any remains with a pencil eraser to clean the surface for soldering and eliminate any conductive burrs after the cut to prevent shorts between the quadrants. It's pretty genius.
For context on why they want the 4 quadrants for the STM see: https://web.archive.org/web/20121114015437/http://www.geocit...
So in theory you could lay out a grid of piezo sensors this way, and then solder afterwards, or alternatively pattern the thin metal layer in such a way with traces such that between the top pads of each new subtransducer there are thin traces going to the edge of the piezo disc...
The patterning could happen mechanically or perhaps more sanely lithographically: spin coat (on a CPU fan) some photoresist, pattern with minification (don't need 5nm resolution) then etch the metal layer away... This seems to be within financial reach of top universities of even the poorest nations...
The cheapest buzzer element on DigiKey (helpfully without leads presoldered): https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/murata-electronics...
$ 0.19827 @ 8k pieces
(Cheapest in the naive sense of sorting by price, ideally you'd go through the list of 107 active products and inspect the price as a function of quantity)
The largest buzzer element on DigiKey (larger to allow more sub transducers to be defined):
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/pui-audio-inc/AB65...
$ 2.67 @ single piece $ 1.4 @ 1000 pieces
(Largest in the naive sense of sorting by diameter, ideally you'd again go through the list of 107 active parts, and check the datasheets or images to estimate the actual piezo area diameter as opposed to the metal base diameter)
For the full list of active (currently buyable) DigiKey piezo elements: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/audio-products/buzzer-el...
For patterning one could use an analog camera, and focus it on a high resolution monitor, try and develop a couple of times to find the best setting for final resolution. then place the piezo with photoresist in place of the film...(probably irreversibly modify the analog camera a bit). Photoresist should be relatively cheap if its consumption is properly planned.
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Idea 2: Using pressure sensitive paints, and optical readout.
Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure-sensitive_paint
Pressure sensitive paints work by sensing the local oxygen concentration, which may be problematic in aquous conditions, perhaps it could still work on dissolved oxygen? Perhaps variations on oxygen-based PSP could be designed for liquids (better impedance matching with human body).
Perhaps a layer of PSP can be cured/dried in a flexible foamed state (with trapped air bubbles). Such that it can be brought in contact with water but still retain trapped air?
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Idea 3: Using "schlieren photography": I am unable to find it back, but years ago I saw a video (I believe from some israeli university/college) where they somehow used Schlieren photography in water (which is rather incompressible) to visualize the beam quality and spot size of the transducer & accoustic lens / ...
If Schlieren imaging was used to characterize the quality of the ultrasonic beam, it suggests that perhaps Schlieren imaging could be used directly, if properly miniaturized etc...
One can easily find papers on the subject of using Schlieren imaging for characterizing hydrophones etc...
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this mean you feel that your work is not altruistic? Would you mind elaborating on that? Some days I feel like I’d rather work for a non-profit than where I am.
Having worked in a government organization (military) for 10 years, i will guess. I think the point is not that one is not better than the other, simply that they are different. Each coin has two sides, and double edged swords cut both ways. If youre flush with cash, you might feel void of meaning. If youre helping children, you feel fulfilled but frustrated by what little it would take to accomplish so much more.
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had similar thoughts, but then I started realizing that investing in fighting malaria or cheap ultrasound scanners will matter little if in 30-50 years much of our planet becomes uninhabitable, which is now nearly certain unless we take immediate action. These days I think almost all resources should be thrown into inventing and developing carbon capture technologies. I don't mean to belittle the achievement or sou…
All these things need to be done. My thoughts center around how do you provide a decent sustainable existence for the other 2-3 billion people on earth[1]. There are a lot of things that need to be done to make that happen. Really affordable basic healthcare is one of those things. [1] Hint we can't do this via the raw growth and exploitation used to lift the first billion people out of poverty.
Those 2-3 billion people on earth you mentioned? Most of those live in the tropical zones and if we do not concentrate on fighting climate change NOW, will not have a place to live. Healthcare will be a secondary issue.
Re: In African Villages, Phones Can Become Ultrasound Scanners
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ultrasound systems are medical devices. There are limits on power levels for patient safety and to ensure efficacy. To my knowledge, licensing here is an attempt to protect patient safety.
Phony argument. An electronic thermometer and blood pressure monitor ensure safety too and they never need a license. Do x-ray machines need a license? This ulrasound device by definition doesn't even emit radiation. This company is conning its users.
You can believe they are conning their users, but if you want to manufacturer and sell ultrasound systems, you generally have to comply with many different regulations.