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Is everything an MLM

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Re: Is everything an MLM

#51

Post by johnisgood »

soVeryTired wrote: post #48
johnisgood wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does exploitation mean exactly in this context? What does it mean to be exploited by an employer?

I guess any sort of significant power imbalance. Does your team generate good revenue for the company but you still get paid peanuts? Does your work ask for overtime but fail to allow you to take time off when you need it? Do they ask for commitment to the job, while being prepared to terminate you at a moment's notice when time gets tough?

Yeah, but you get into that contract voluntarily, so you sort of know what you signed up for, and regardless, you have the option to quit. This is why I do not understand the complaints.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#52

Post by adamsea »

johnisgood wrote: post #51
soVeryTired wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess any sort of significant power imbalance. Does your team generate good revenue for the company but you still get paid peanuts? Does your work ask for overtime but fail to allow you to take time off when you need it? Do they ask for commitment to the job, while being prepared to terminate you at a moment's notice when time gets tough?

Yeah, but you get into that contract voluntarily , so you sort of know what you signed up for, and regardless, you have the option to quit. This is why I do not understand the complaints.

Mmmm if you don’t work and make money in the US you’ll be in a bad way, and since the majority of employers have the conditions described, and most job seekers have little negotiating leverage on these issues, the choice to sign the employment contract is voluntary, yes, but so much behind the circumstances and conditions of that signing is beyond the power of an individual to effect or influence through their choices.

Which is why the saying “strength in numbers” is a saying.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#53

Post by bluetomcat »

Most of the economy in the so called "developed countries" is nowadays a zero-sum game between winners and losers. Seen from a macro perspective, it resembles a multi-agent system where independent agents compete to provide inessential products and services in exchange for being able to afford basic necessities like housing, food and child care. The finite resource that such companies are fighting for is people's attention and time. Some win, others lose, but the status quo is that we are sweating from work in order to live in a world with smart refrigerators, automatic garage doors and pointless baby toys. And if we had more spare time, why would we even think of that.

What we really need is a change in paradigm because market forces will mostly solve only small "consumer" problems and cannot reorganise our society in a more efficient way.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#54

Post by [deleted] »

johnisgood wrote: post #43
beardedwizard wrote: post #37

While there is more going on, the subtle comment about hustle culture resonates with me. Cheap labor exploitation called "hustling", and currently everyone seems to want to have a hustle. It's because we are getting screwed at our day jobs, folks, and those same employers are exploiting you again when you leave and start your hustle.

What does exploitation mean exactly in this context? What does it mean to be exploited by an employer?

[deleted]

Re: Is everything an MLM

#55

Post by binarymax »

johnisgood wrote: post #51
soVeryTired wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess any sort of significant power imbalance. Does your team generate good revenue for the company but you still get paid peanuts? Does your work ask for overtime but fail to allow you to take time off when you need it? Do they ask for commitment to the job, while being prepared to terminate you at a moment's notice when time gets tough?

Yeah, but you get into that contract voluntarily , so you sort of know what you signed up for, and regardless, you have the option to quit. This is why I do not understand the complaints.

This choice is an illusion for anyone not in the higher echelons of society and your comment is the result of confirmation bias. Most people need to work and will take what is available to them and suffer the reality of a lopsided contract at will and vast underpayment. Most people can't just quit if they don't like their job - they will lose their only source of meager income, healthcare, and possibly their home.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#56

Post by rleigh »

hopler wrote: post #44
rleigh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of arts and humanities PhDs is that they are largely self-funded, much fewer in number, and mostly vocational for the truly dedicated. I think you might have a different perspective if you were to do a science PhD. It's exactly what is described. It can feel like you are low-wage labour. You are low-wage labour. From the academic group leads' point of view, your labour is "free" because you come into…

PhD isn't exclusively for academic careers. Industry has scientist jobs.

While a PhD isn't necessarily "exclusively for academic careers", in practice this is the primary focus of the training undergone during one, including most of the career-oriented stuff. But it's a lie. The vast majority will leave during or after their PhD, or during or after a Postdoc. Which brings into question the entire premise of commencing one in the first place.

But the number of industrial scientist positions actually requiring a PhD is still much smaller, by far, than the number of PhDs coming out of the system. The vast majority are happy with an MSc or BSc, or equivalent industrial experience. Even accounting for non-academic careers, the number of current PhD students is unjustifiable and detrimental.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#57

Post by jopsen »

bluetomcat wrote: post #53

Most of the economy in the so called "developed countries" is nowadays a zero-sum game between winners and losers. Seen from a macro perspective, it resembles a multi-agent system where independent agents compete to provide inessential products and services in exchange for being able to afford basic necessities like housing, food and child care. The finite resource that such companies are fighting for is people's att…

> ...because market forces will mostly solve only small "consumer" problems and cannot reorganise our society in a more efficient way.

Market forces have repeatedly reorganized our society from farms to factories and increasingly from factories to offices..

But we might need to tweak the incentives and refactor regulation.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#59

Post by mrfusion »

nostrademons wrote: post #2

Life is a pyramid scheme. Rather than figure out a way to exist in a steady-state forever, our cells divide exponentially, accumulate genetic mutations until they can't take it anymore, and then rather than fix themselves, we just make new humans and let the old one die. Humanity in developed countries at least has the kindness not to make more humans than we believe have a reasonable chance of survival, but that res…

That’s an appeal to nature argument. Humans have the capacity to be better than their nature.

Re: Is everything an MLM

#60

Post by jostmey »

soniman wrote: post #19

Any decent grad department will give the grad students a tuition waiver and stipend so it's actually the opposite of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, you pay to join the pyramid. In academia, the pyramid pays you. I spent two years in a grad department in Boston that paid me to hang out and read books and occasionally grade papers. It probably wasn't the best life decision but there wasn't any exploitation.

These students could probably make a lot more on the open market. The Universities advertise it as a good deal, when in truth it is not
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