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Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

sciencemag.org

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Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#51

Post by ucaetano »

yumraj wrote: post #2

I wonder why the headline says 'Asian' instead of saying Chinese, since all three researchers were Chinese with ties to China. As an ethic Indian, I'm kinda offended when all Asians are just lumped together as I believe it promotes general racism and bias against anyone from that continent .

Because that's how the five were described:

Cancer center officials have not named any of the five researchers. MD Anderson President Peter Pisters says all are “Asian”; Science has confirmed that three are ethnically Chinese.

Also, race, geographic origin and ethnicity are complicated. "Asian" is as vague in describing the people from Asia as "white" or "European" or "caucasian" are vague in describing those from Europe & Western Asia.

You'd be better with Germanics, Baltic, Persian/Iranian, Kurds, Turks, Slavs (and the multiple breakdowns), Uralic, Latin/Roman, Hispanic (nothing to do with the US 'latino/hispanic'), European Jews (and the different breakdowns) and so on.

Which also brings into play the fact that in Europe the concept of a Nation-State (essentially, a country which is dominated by a people) has been slowly disappearing over the past few centuries (but not entirely), while in Asia IMHO it still seems to be the rule.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#52

Post by Dirlewanger »

haditab wrote: post #38
president wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic, people from all nations should be able to get top secret government security clearances. Let me know how that works out.

No. By his logic "birth place" shouldn't be the determining factor. FYI, birth place does not determine nationality.

While that's true, personally I'm ok with birth place being a restriction for some things e.g. in order to run for President in the US, one needs to be born in the US, not merely a citizen. Not sure how it is in other Western countries.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#53

Post by [deleted] »

yumraj wrote: post #2

I wonder why the headline says 'Asian' instead of saying Chinese, since all three researchers were Chinese with ties to China. As an ethic Indian, I'm kinda offended when all Asians are just lumped together as I believe it promotes general racism and bias against anyone from that continent .

[deleted]

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#54

Post by Razengan »

yumraj wrote: post #2

I wonder why the headline says 'Asian' instead of saying Chinese, since all three researchers were Chinese with ties to China. As an ethic Indian, I'm kinda offended when all Asians are just lumped together as I believe it promotes general racism and bias against anyone from that continent .

Yes, “Asian” as used by most Westerners† is the current socially-palatable “Oriental” or “Mongoloid”, but it’s no less lazy, ignorant, annoying and even racist.

Imagine calling Canadians and Mexicans “American” because of the continent.

† If you’re annoyed by being lumped under “Westerner” you might be able to relate.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#55

Post by [deleted] »

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #8

I remember when I was young (+40 years ago), many Swiss private banks would only hire Swiss people. That rule was due to the French IRS equivalent having their own employees sent to Switzerland and hired by Swiss bank. They were mole transmitting confidential information about French clients. So these private banks had to restore trust and security. Honestly still today, for some critial jobs, I do not understand com…

[deleted]

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#56

Post by [deleted] »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #52
haditab wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. By his logic "birth place" shouldn't be the determining factor. FYI, birth place does not determine nationality.

While that's true, personally I'm ok with birth place being a restriction for some things e.g. in order to run for President in the US, one needs to be born in the US, not merely a citizen. Not sure how it is in other Western countries.

[deleted]

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#57

Post by lostlogin »

taf2 wrote: post #46
booleandilemma wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, when I hear Asian I think Chinese/Japanese/Korean. Despite the fact that I know India is in Asia, I don’t think of people from India as Asians. Incidentally, Israel is also in Asia, but I don’t consider Israelis to be Asian either. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-continent-is-israel...

I think also the divide between Europe and Asia to be silly since generally continent is defined as: "any of the world's main continuous expanses of land" - and I don't see any dividing body of water between Europe and Asia... What am I missing?

> What am I missing?

The Turkish Straits. Are you referring to the more northern border? I assumed it was the Ural Mountains, but it’s more complicated than that and has an interesting history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundaries_between_the_conti...

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#58

Post by djakjxnanjak »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #52
haditab wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. By his logic "birth place" shouldn't be the determining factor. FYI, birth place does not determine nationality.

While that's true, personally I'm ok with birth place being a restriction for some things e.g. in order to run for President in the US, one needs to be born in the US, not merely a citizen. Not sure how it is in other Western countries.

I don’t think that’s true - John McCain was born in Panama. The rule is they have to be a citizen at birth.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#59

Post by billfruit »

umvi wrote: post #36
danso wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are Indians not considered “Asians in practice” when they are considered as such by the Census, the authoritative organization that sets the categorization standard?

Colloquially, in America, Asians are identified as having slanty eyes and white skin. Indians have brown skin and are therefore not colloquially referred to as Asians. Instead, they are referred to simply as "Indian".

Colloquailly in the UK it is somewhat of an opposite scenario, if people hear "Asian", they think someone from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh.

Re: Major U.S. cancer center ousts ‘Asian’ researchers after NIH flags foreign ties

#60

Post by forthac »

danso wrote: post #20
codegeek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that because in the US, Indians are not considered Asians in practice even though of course South Asia is, well in Asia. I have seen many people argue that Asians only mean East Asians and does not include South Asians. However, the official census lumps all Asians together.

How are Indians not considered “Asians in practice” when they are considered as such by the Census, the authoritative organization that sets the categorization standard?

For the same reason that Tomatoes not treated as fruits "in practice."
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