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Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

nytimes.com

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Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#51

Post by duxup »

joshka wrote: post #46
duxup wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remembered watching that and thinking that it was apt.... but there's no damn way anyone gets access to all those different systems managed by different groups seamlessly. The bureaucracy involved would be immense, the various systems that can't talk to each other efficiently endless. I imagined all the overhead that would go into that and it hurt my brain ;)

A fun thought exercise to break the "can't do it" perspective. Imagine someone says they'll give you 10 million dollars to get it done, could you do it then?

I think the challenge is you don't know where the "runner" you're tracking is going and the variety of surveillance systems they tap into is a pretty big unknown.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#52

Post by RoadieRoller »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29
greenyoda wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to commit a crime, leave your phone at home so that (1) you can't be linked to the crime scene and (2) there's evidence you may have been somewhere else (at home) at the time.

Also make sure your home activities continue as normal such as electricity, water, gas, and internet usage. And don’t use any vehicle with a license plate that can be tracked to you, or the area around your house. All that effort is better focused on committing legal white collar crimes, via plausible deniability and in person conversations that aren’t recorded.

> And don’t use any vehicle with a license plate that can be tracked to you, or the area around your house.

And don't use any vehicle which has navigation system or live traffic info screen.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#53

Post by akira2501 »

DontGiveTwoFlux wrote: post #2

The article describes a case where an innocent man had to spend a week in jail. Eventually, he was released and the presumed actual perpetrator was caught. The lead seemed to come from the location data, so it wasn’t useless at least. But the so called justice system says that it got it right here. The innocent man lost his job when he couldn’t work for a week. Depending on his situation he could miss rent and be evi…

> Why do we have a system that says justice was served?

Because it was. There was a criminal investigation, it was processed judiciously, and as a result the man was cleared and released. None of this was based upon a _single_ piece of evidence, but multiple facts that supported each other.

The only "injustice" I can detect is that he wasn't bailed out while waiting for a trial.. but the article suspiciously doesn't touch on that subject, so I have nothing to go on there.

> It’s cruel and unfair.

If he has a civil issue with his employer or with the state or it's officers, then that's a separate question and he absolutely has the right to pursue it for remedy if he chooses.

> This dragnet police tactic will scoop up more bystanders and probably convict more than a few innocents as well.

You make it sound as if the police _only_ used location data to make this case and the arrest. The article shows that they didn't and further shows that the actual murderer had used Mr Molina's car to commit the murder. It's nothing like what you describe.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#54

Post by ehsankia »

fharper1961 wrote: post #18

Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. It sucks that this innocent person ended up suffering. Hopefully law enforcement will become better at figuring out false positives before arresting someone. I do like that the gov. doesn't have direct access. Seems to me like the more independent parties required to access the data, the lower the chances of abuse.

I'm a little confused here. It turned out that it was his mother's ex-boyfriend, who had taken his car without permission. That explains the car, but how does it explain the location? Did he just happen to also leave close to there and was moving in a similar pattern? Was the phone inside the car?

Really, the issue here was the car, without which they wouldn't have had enough evidence to get the person's information in the first place. Are you not partly responsible to whom you give your car to?

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#55

Post by fzzzy »

dvtrn wrote: post #23
vermontdevil wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hackman was also in another movie about spying and paranoia - The Conversation. Great movie. I know it’s not about nation states spying but wanted to add that here

Oh? Thanks for the recommendation, I'm a big fan of Hackman's acting and spy movies especially-lately, so I'll definitely be looking this up. Cheers

The Conversation is an absolute classic.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#56

Post by jfk13 »

ehsankia wrote: post #54
fharper1961 wrote: post #18

Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. It sucks that this innocent person ended up suffering. Hopefully law enforcement will become better at figuring out false positives before arresting someone. I do like that the gov. doesn't have direct access. Seems to me like the more independent parties required to access the data, the lower the chances of abuse.

I'm a little confused here. It turned out that it was his mother's ex-boyfriend, who had taken his car without permission. That explains the car, but how does it explain the location? Did he just happen to also leave close to there and was moving in a similar pattern? Was the phone inside the car? Really, the issue here was the car, without which they wouldn't have had enough evidence to get the person's information…

If someone steals my car and uses it when committing a crime, I can accept that may well lead to questioning me. But I don't think it justifies keeping me in jail for a week.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#57

Post by kevingrahl »

aplummer wrote: post #37
shereadsthenews wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have access to your location history from Google. https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

Thats a cool site I didn't know about, however I assumed the innocent suspect wasn't logged into google maps, and that the reporting was done by the device separately.

Afaik you don’t have to be using Maps for Google to track your location. If you have location tracking turned on in your Google account and are for example logged into android Google will get your GPS even if you’ve never used Maps.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#58

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

bestnameever wrote: post #39
shereadsthenews wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have access to your location history from Google. https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

only if you have that feature turned on. Google also records data outside of maps and timeline, IIRC. I imagine you can always access your complete location history by exporting it from Google's take out feature.

From the article, it sounds like the history you have access to is the same that was used for the dragnet searches.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#59

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

Jerry2 wrote: post #36

> Though Google’s data cache is enormous, it doesn’t sweep up every phone, said Mr. Edens, the California intelligence analyst. And even if a location is recorded every few minutes, that may not coincide with a shooting or an assault. > But despite the drawbacks, detectives noted how precise the data was and how it was collected even when people weren’t making calls or using apps — both improvements over tracking tha…

It sounds like all of this is basically "location history". Turn it off, and never accidentally click agree on one of the hundreds of "turn on location history for better XXX" prompts (usually assistant-related), and if understand the article right, you should be out of the dragnet.
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