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Chromium-based Edge preview builds

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#51

Post by gsnedders »

fgonzag wrote: post #28

I wish they've would have gone with Firefox's Quantum, in order to try and at least balance out web market shares. MSFT no longer has any leverage in the web, so trying to keep it fair and accessible (no browser monopolies) should be a priority for them (especially since they have quite a few web platforms like office 365)

From a health-of-the-web point of view, it absolutely makes sense to go with Gecko.

But from a business point-of-view, there's two opposing sides: going with Gecko devalues your browser on mobile (where WebKit & Blink effectively form a duopoly, and there's still enough content that relies on non-standard (pre-fork) behaviour that it causes problems for Gecko), though going with Gecko would increase their leverage against Google.

There were certainly a fair few of us at Opera when the decision there was made to move to WebKit who argued for Gecko, but that decision was very much made on the basis of growing web compat problems on mobile (given WebKit had >90% marketshare there) and going with Gecko wouldn't solve that, and that situation hasn't really changed (well, the WebKit/Blink fork has improved things somewhat for new features, but that's about it).

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#52

Post by abrowne »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #18
partiallypro wrote: post #2

It looks nice so far, but Microsoft really needs to drop the E logo, and maybe even the Edge name. Both already have negative connotations; and I don't think Microsoft can now claim that it makes it easier to find access to the internet. Especially when Chrome and Safari on tablets and phones look nothing like the iconic blue E, and yet late age boomers can still figure out the devices.

I'm not so sure that all old consumers can find another browser icon. Most in my experience look for the E.

That's what they said when they announced the Edge name – if they didn't choose an E- name (and logo), literally millions of people wouldn't be able to get on the web.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#53

Post by saagarjha »

lousken wrote: post #49
fgonzag wrote: post #28

I wish they've would have gone with Firefox's Quantum, in order to try and at least balance out web market shares. MSFT no longer has any leverage in the web, so trying to keep it fair and accessible (no browser monopolies) should be a priority for them (especially since they have quite a few web platforms like office 365)

I hope Apple would turn away from webkit and invested into firefox. They're both privacy focused so it seems like a logical choice.

Why would they do that when they essentially control an entire browser engine?

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#54

Post by saagarjha »

leeoniya wrote: post #24
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't dominance that people were referring to, it's the intentional heel dragging to benefit other parts of their corporate family at the expense of the web that makes Safari the new IE.

when people say "Safari is the new IE" they mean that Safari has numerous bugs and missing features that take years to fix or implement. there's probably a ton of CSS stuff that doesn't need -webkit prefixes anymore in any browser (because it has been standardized). except of course in the outdated and widely-used Safari/iOS. For instance, they only now got Intersection Observer (super important to efficiently lazy l…

Let's not beat around the bush: Intersection Observer can and will be used to detect ad impressions too. Calling it "super important to lazy load images" doesn't show the whole picture.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#55

Post by scrollaway »

gsnedders wrote: post #51
fgonzag wrote: post #28

I wish they've would have gone with Firefox's Quantum, in order to try and at least balance out web market shares. MSFT no longer has any leverage in the web, so trying to keep it fair and accessible (no browser monopolies) should be a priority for them (especially since they have quite a few web platforms like office 365)

From a health-of-the-web point of view, it absolutely makes sense to go with Gecko. But from a business point-of-view, there's two opposing sides: going with Gecko devalues your browser on mobile (where WebKit & Blink effectively form a duopoly, and there's still enough content that relies on non-standard (pre-fork) behaviour that it causes problems for Gecko), though going with Gecko would increase their leverage ag…

From a technical perspective it makes zero sence to go with Gecko, given that it's 1. much harder to embed (there's a reason everyone's going with webkit/blink) and 2. with servo around the corner, a gecko EOL is expected at some point.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#56

Post by dragonwriter »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #17
sverige wrote: post #6

Seriously, why is MS doing this? Internet Explorer died years ago, Edge never took off, and Google isn't about to give up their market share for spyware without a fight. It's like MS thinks this is Browser Wars 3.0. Heaven help me if it turns out that MS seems to be doing something comparatively good.

I think you answered your own question. Edge never took off, why continue investing money into it? This offloads a lot of work to the open-source Chromium project, allowing Microsoft to just skin it and add whatever else they need.

> This offloads a lot of work to the open-source Chromium project, allowing Microsoft to just skin it and add whatever else they need.

Plus, it means any work MS does at implementing web features they view as strategic in their browser will naturally easily port back to Chrome, eliminating technical barriers for them becoming common user-agent features (there might still be political/strategic reasons for Chrome not accepting them, of course.)

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#57

Post by gsnedders »

scrollaway wrote: post #55
gsnedders wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a health-of-the-web point of view, it absolutely makes sense to go with Gecko. But from a business point-of-view, there's two opposing sides: going with Gecko devalues your browser on mobile (where WebKit & Blink effectively form a duopoly, and there's still enough content that relies on non-standard (pre-fork) behaviour that it causes problems for Gecko), though going with Gecko would increase their leverage ag…

From a technical perspective it makes zero sence to go with Gecko, given that it's 1. much harder to embed (there's a reason everyone's going with webkit/blink) and 2. with servo around the corner, a gecko EOL is expected at some point.

It being harder to embed is definitely true, but there's increasingly will within Mozilla to change that, and if someone (e.g. MS) was willing to step up and help provide engineering resources to make it possible it's definitely doable. GeckoView is slowly changing this on mobile, and resultantly something for desktop is easier than it was five years ago.

Servo isn't replacing Gecko, though. There's nowhere near the level of resources being put into Servo for it ever to become a viable browser engine, and there's no sign that Mozilla are moving in that direction. They're still very much using Servo to experiment with new things (WebRender, parallel layout, etc.), but the approach is clearly moving modules from Servo into Gecko if/when they become production-ready. As such, Gecko isn't going anywhere, even if parts of it are getting rewritten/replaced (and that's no different to Blink!).

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#58

Post by pcwalton »

scrollaway wrote: post #55
gsnedders wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a health-of-the-web point of view, it absolutely makes sense to go with Gecko. But from a business point-of-view, there's two opposing sides: going with Gecko devalues your browser on mobile (where WebKit & Blink effectively form a duopoly, and there's still enough content that relies on non-standard (pre-fork) behaviour that it causes problems for Gecko), though going with Gecko would increase their leverage ag…

From a technical perspective it makes zero sence to go with Gecko, given that it's 1. much harder to embed (there's a reason everyone's going with webkit/blink) and 2. with servo around the corner, a gecko EOL is expected at some point.

Point #1 is getting less true with GeckoView (at least on mobile), and point #2 is unlikely. Like most tech products that have a large number of users, a transition plan for Firefox would necessarily involve gradual changes (which are arguably already taking place with Quantum), which an embedder could ride.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#60

Post by rayiner »

I liked Edge because of its fantastic battery life (for browsing, Edge was like having a 25% larger battery.) I was annoyed that many sites seemed to be Chrome-specific, including some I absolutely need to rely on. I switched to Brave, and it's amazing. Chrome-based, but somehow results in far better battery life than Chrome.
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