Sounds like domestic terrorism.. is it not?
No, it quite clearly isn’t.
The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
51–60 of 118 posts
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitt…
>What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me? Really? You dont understand how Chinese, N. Koreans, and Russian governments can use an American citizens data to blackmail them? Please point me to one instance of the US government blackmailing one of its own citizens or point me to an action that is comparably damaging.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
> COINTELPRO (1956–1971) was a series of covert, and at times illegal,[1][2] projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_lette...
> The letter does not specify precisely what action it is urging King to undertake; King understood the letter as advocating that he commit suicide, ...
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." -- The 3rd Amendment The early revolutionary war history overly simplified is something like this. Britain increases taxes on America. America stops paying taxes. Britain increases military presence to force America to pay taxes. America fought against the Brit…
Also, bootleggers who made money by smuggling stuff for cheap and selling it right below the full tariff price and weren't happy about the British ending their tariffs and making them lose money. Also, the whole trial by jury of peers was really great for those like John Hancock (the guy who signed his name really big on the Constitution) who got in trouble with the British for smuggling and then would be invariably…
I did say my history lesson was oversimplified. The question of _how_ Americans avoided paying taxes is always interesting, not just during this time period.
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#54Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…
Considering that Apple is a US company, and that millions of US citizens use Apple products, US intelligence agencies should be securing these devices. Not compromising them.
The US has such an overwhelming military advantage over North Korea or Russia that it doesn't have to gain a leg up in infosec. All it has to do is level the playing field by making sure that everyone's running as securely as possible.
I'll rely on the one dozen Naval Carrier Strike Groups to keep me safe. Really doubt that reading Kim Jong Un's email is going to make a difference.
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#55Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…
Most people don't pay taxes so the CIA can spy on them. They pay taxes so they don't end up in prison. If they're going to take our money I'd actually prefer they just used it to buy themselves luxuries over spying on us.
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#56One thing is sure, is that the Snowden leaks really made me realize that countries won't bother with morals to improve national security and advance its capabilities, but in the end, it's just another debate that Machiavel has answers for.
I think that communication technologies, and high speed internet becoming so widespread, created a big new battlefield which is particular because it's not so violent and ugly.
There aren't clear military laws about the internet like there is for other battlefield like the geneva convention, and that's makes all of this so interesting.
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#57Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…
Considering that Apple is a US company, and that millions of US citizens use Apple products, US intelligence agencies should be securing these devices. Not compromising them. The US has such an overwhelming military advantage over North Korea or Russia that it doesn't have to gain a leg up in infosec. All it has to do is level the playing field by making sure that everyone's running as securely as possible. I'll rely…
> Considering that Apple is a US company, and that millions of US citizens use Apple products, US intelligence agencies should be securing these devices. Not compromising them.
You're absolutely right! It's unquestionably the job of the US intelligence apparatus to help secure American interests.
With that said, Apple is a multi-national company, with millions of units used by people of all nationalities. And a vast amount of American military superiority is based on superior technical intelligence.
A carrier group can solve, at great expense in blood and treasure, a problem that intelligence can often solve more quickly and at an earlier point in time. With that in mind, it seems reckless to not take seriously the value of intelligence.
Again, you're completely correct in every way. Apple is an American company! It's just perhaps possible that there could be a bit of subtlety to this.
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#58Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…
Aren't domestic investigations the FBI's job, though? Why does the CIA have jurisdiction to steal the intellectual property of an American company?
For operations, you're completely correct!
Research, which is what this article appears to be primarily about, the CIA is permitted to conduct domestically.
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#59Sounds like domestic terrorism.. is it not?
If you redefine terrorism to remove the dependence on violence, unless I missed something in the article? I don't personally believe that trying to find security flaws terrorism.
they aren't just trying to find security flaws... they probably buy/find most of them so that they can use them (it might scare and/or terrorize some people to be watched and controlled at all times)
Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. > But somethings like breaking encryption, exploiting iPhones, etc. while they may be used against Americans can also be used against others. Both of these can have a chilling effect on free speech, therefore I'm against the CIA doing this to citizens. The potential threat against citizens nowhere near outweighs the need to upho…
I think we all agree that they shouldn't do this to American citizens. The problem is we can't isolate their capabilities to just foreign persons.
As a "foreign person", I'd rather like for no organization to come and record everything I do just because I wasn't born in a specific place.
Ironically though, the average American citizen is probably under more CIA surveillance than the average foreign person such as myself.