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European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

bbc.com

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Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#51

Post by bunderbunder »

qwsxyh wrote: post #47
renholder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

Here in the UK permenant summer time would mean sunrise would be 9am during the depths of winter. That sounds like a great way to make more accidents (as everyone is now driving to work in the dark at 8am) and also make the seasonal depression worse.

Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter.

Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#52

Post by qwsxyh »

bunderbunder wrote: post #51
qwsxyh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the UK permenant summer time would mean sunrise would be 9am during the depths of winter. That sounds like a great way to make more accidents (as everyone is now driving to work in the dark at 8am) and also make the seasonal depression worse.

Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter. Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.

Permenant winter time means that school hours in Winter are entirely contained within sunlight hours. Permenant summer time means that kids are walking to school in the dark. I'd rather not have them hit by drivers also driving in the dark.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#54

Post by [deleted] »

qwsxyh wrote: post #52
bunderbunder wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter. Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.

Permenant winter time means that school hours in Winter are entirely contained within sunlight hours. Permenant summer time means that kids are walking to school in the dark. I'd rather not have them hit by drivers also driving in the dark.

[deleted]

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#55

Post by mabbo »

> The European Parliament has backed a proposal to stop the obligatory one-hour clock change which extends daylight hours in summer EU-wide.

> which extends daylight hours

No, it doesn't. The number of daylight hours is exactly the same no matter what your clocks do.

All DST does is force everyone to change their schedules so that they wake up earlier, go to work earlier, come home earlier, and go to bed earlier. It effectively forces businesses to open an hour earlier and close an hour earlier because of society's expectations.

When you describe it this way, the entire process sounds like something that takes place in a totalitarian state run by a crazy person. Yet here we are as a group claiming it somehow helps farmers (it doesn't, it makes things more challenging for them). The only people who truly benefit from DST are golfers (and golf course owners) who can leave work an hour early and get in a few more rounds.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#56

Post by cr1895 »

qwsxyh wrote: post #52
bunderbunder wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter. Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.

Permenant winter time means that school hours in Winter are entirely contained within sunlight hours. Permenant summer time means that kids are walking to school in the dark. I'd rather not have them hit by drivers also driving in the dark.

>kids are walking to school in the dark.

As they already do in many other places. Why should this be particularly dangerous for the UK compared to elsewhere?

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#57

Post by sergioisidoro »

IanPBann wrote: post #49
sergioisidoro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the article is incorrect. I just went thought the proposal and what member states can choose is between keeping summer ot winter time! quote: "Consequently, the Commission proposes to discontinue the seasonal time changes in the Union, while ensuring that Member States retain the competence to decide on their standard time, in particular whether they will move to the standard time corresponding to their sum…

The comment you replied to is correct based on what you said - if you start in a state in permanent summer time, travel south to a state in permanent winter time, keep travelling south to a state in permanent summer time, and so on, you will be going back and forth by an hour repeatedly. Hypothetically, if you start just north of Sittard and east of the German/Netherlands border (in Germany), and travel in a straight…

Ah! you are correct. I thought the author was referring to the possibility of a country south of another being 1h ahead/behind depending if they do the yearly switch or not.

But in this case we go to the general problem of choosing of timezones. You have plenty of cases of south borders with different timezones (ie. without moving in longitude you still switch zones).

It's a matter of country size, not to mention that it is a matter of economic interest to keep the same timezone as neighbouring countries. I would assume the scenario you mentioned to be quite unlikely.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#58

Post by wongarsu »

qalmakka wrote: post #41
renholder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Under the new legislation, governments opting to make summer time permanent would adjust their clocks for the last time on the last Sunday in March 2021. For those choosing permanent standard time - also called winter time - the final clock change would be on the last Sunday of October 2021. It's down to the member states to decide but I think most would prefer summer; save for maybe the Nordics, where the vast dif…

I think countries on a blatantly wrong timezone such as Spain should take this opportunity to fix it. For instance, Spain could stay in UTC+1 all year round and go back in the same timezone as Portugal (which is going to certainly pick its summer time as its whole-year round timezone), thus eliminating the artificial shift everything has there (people eat lunch at 14 and dinner at 22, but these times match roughly wi…

I would argue Portugal is the one in the "wrong" timezone here.

If you want the sun to be at its high point at noon, Spain is obviously in the wrong time zone. But you see plenty of countries around the world choosing a slightly different timezone to facilitate trade and communication with some other country (or within itself, in the case of larger countries). With most other barriers to trade gone within the eurozone having to convert timezones is a significant inconvinience that (in the mind of many) outweighs having the sun in slightly the wrong place.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#59

Post by mijamo »

seanalltogether wrote: post #38

People often say they would rather have permanent summer time, but from observation it seems everyone sets their rhythm around solar noon regardless, so why not make noon = noon. During the summer months Spain's solar noon is between 2 and 2:30pm. Guess what time Spaniards sit down to eat lunch? In the summer the UKs solar noon is around 1pm, guess what time all the office workers pour out on the streets to eat lunch…

THis is actually false.

School start at the same time in Spain and UK, people wake up early in Spain.

One of the main reason of eating late is that it gets too hot in the beginning of the afternoon so people take a break then. Work hours can be 8-14 and then 18-21 for instance.

Making solar noon 12:00 would not help anything at all.

In addition, it would require rewriting all the laws regarding night work, all the work agreements etc. (because your contract says from 18:00 you are paid x% more, but suddenly with your change 18:00 is way too late).

This would be a disaster and with no real benefit apart from saying that you synchronized an artificial time construction with a solar phenomenon.

Re: European MPs vote to end summer time clock changes

#60

Post by wongarsu »

qwsxyh wrote: post #52
bunderbunder wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern Britain gets just over 8 hours of sunlight in the middle of winter. Meaning you can choose between people driving to work with the sun up, or driving home from work with the sun up, but you can't have both. So I guess we'll just have to decide whether people would rather get hit by cars just after breakfast or just before dinner.

Permenant winter time means that school hours in Winter are entirely contained within sunlight hours. Permenant summer time means that kids are walking to school in the dark. I'd rather not have them hit by drivers also driving in the dark.

The potential effects on mood and freetime activities of having all sunlight hours fall into school hours sound more serious than walking to school in the dark (most places where you walk are already illuminated quite well)
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