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Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

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Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#51

Post by drywater »

okr wrote: post #42
dleslie wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the end, are you really sure you want the world to block us? Yes. Let's end the cycle of pretending that we can prevent information from being free. Copyright is a dinosaur of an idea that belongs in the annals of history and out of the present.

Unless someone has some work of their own, that other people start to use and make money off it. Then that one wants copyright. Then its no longer information flying free for everyone.

That is more on the side of licensing.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#52

Post by black-tea »

It must have been ten years ago now that I first listened to Richard Stallman's talk called "Copyright vs Community". It's a really enlightening talk and makes it clear how much worse copyright has become over the years. It makes me incredibly sad to see it now regressing even further.

We're already at a point where copyright severely restricts our ability to share our own culture. A couple of years ago we lost what was, by far, the greatest music collection ever put together. Meticulously maintained by people who love music, but destroyed by people who love money. It pains me that people can't even put up YouTube videos with certain music in the background. People can't record their actual lives because parts of their life are owned by other people.

Copyright belongs in the day of the printing press. It has long out stayed its welcome.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#53

Post by krageon »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #7

As an EU citizen, I hope large portions of the internet will just block us. A couple of days without YouTube, Wikipedia and other services would create sufficient outrage to put pressure on the EU for introducing these idiotic laws. I mean, GDPR is bad enough for start ups, but Article 13?

Laws are for people, not companies. Thinking about startups before discussing it's impact on your fellow people is frankly a very worrying trend.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#54

Post by krageon »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #47
confounded wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 13 is terrible not because it’s terrible for start-ups, it’s terrible because it’s terrible for people. I’m pretty close to the rough-end of GDPR in my current job, but it represents real benefits for millions of people. If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. Or, at least a shift in the right direction. Article 13 o…

> Article 13 is terrible not because it’s terrible for start-ups, it’s terrible because it’s terrible for people. the two aren't mutually exclusive and Europe is right now in a deep growth slump also caused by middle class not moving into entrepreneurship due all the red tape and inefficiencies around having to deal with the particularities of every European state, with the EU aggregating without unifying a mess of r…

VAT and a vast majority of the laws surrounding commerce at least are simple and have been abstracted away by various platforms ages ago. I invite you to read up on the subject and revise your stance (your premise may or may not be true, I will not claim to know either way) based on something that is actually true.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#55

Post by sveme »

est31 wrote: post #6

The big websites participating in the blackout like Wikipedia or some porn sites do have vast access to eyeballs across europe, and would be affected directly and adversely by the new rules. As the lobbying fight has already been mostly won by the local publisher industry, they use their access to those eyeballs to fuel democratic protests of the rule. I hope they win and that Article 11 and 13 will be removed. I thi…

I agree. It actually demonstrates nicely that there is a European community, that isn't organizing itself via the media, but through social media like reddit and twitter (and partially facebook). r/europe, for example, is a surprisingly influential entity with lots of AMAs with proponents and opponents of Article 13. And many less interesting meme chains as well...

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#56

Post by krageon »

BurningFrog wrote: post #38
eikxyz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR was never intended to be "good for startups". Just like pro-climate policies are never intended to be good for the economy. GDPR was intended to be good for peoples privacy. Pro-climate policies are meant to be good for the climate. Somethings gotta give. People are generally more important than startups. Climate is generally more important than economy. Because without people, there are no startups. And without…

You're contradicting yourself. > pro-climate policies are never intended to be good for the economy > without climate, there is no economy, people, or startups

The thing to do here is to read everything this person has said and to take in the bigger picture of what they are trying to say. Focusing on the details like this is doing yourself a disservice, because it makes it look like you don't have the skills they taught you in school.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#57

Post by colechristensen »

duozerk wrote: post #28
bArray wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support their point of view and agree with their protest, but one reason against this could be the potential politicizing and weaponisation of Wikipedia. Do you want one of the largest collectives of human information to take sides (in any debate) and selectively remove its service? I think I would prefer a banner or a landing page more as it doesn't introduce any barrier to the information they provide.

> Do you want one of the largest collectives of human information to take sides (in any debate) and selectively remove its service When that debate is about access to that information, definitely, yes.

The point is well taken that doing such things should be rare and done very carefully.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#58

Post by krageon »

onli wrote: post #48
gerdesj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR and Article 13 (in The Directive on Copyright) are totally different and unrelated things. I happen to be a small business owner in the EU and I have many customers who are the same. We all have registered with the ICO (UK) for something like £60 pa and filled in a short questionnaire. We have read the clear guidance on what records to keep and what to not keep - it's not rocket science. That is GDPR for most sm…

> I understand that A13 looks a bit like an anti-meme effort but it isn't because that is generally covered by parody or reasonable use regulations. That's exactly the problem. Stuff of that is protected, and with good reason. But upload filter that would be mandated by article 13 can't detect that fair use. By enforcing them for all platforms like Youtube all of this will vanish from the european internet.

You don't and can't know this and it is obvious because you are speculating about a future fact. It would help all of us if you couched it as such so that no reader can be deluded into thinking you have based your arguments on the kind of certainty that they seem to be based on.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#59

Post by _nalply »

orangecat wrote: post #33
confounded wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 13 is terrible not because it’s terrible for start-ups, it’s terrible because it’s terrible for people. I’m pretty close to the rough-end of GDPR in my current job, but it represents real benefits for millions of people. If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. Or, at least a shift in the right direction. Article 13 o…

If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option. Article 13 on the other hand is what you get if you ask rights-holde…

> I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option.

Do you have a source for that?

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#60

Post by krageon »

dingaling wrote: post #45
dleslie wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the end, are you really sure you want the world to block us? Yes. Let's end the cycle of pretending that we can prevent information from being free. Copyright is a dinosaur of an idea that belongs in the annals of history and out of the present.

> Copyright is a dinosaur of an idea that belongs in the annals of history and out of the present. Then don't copyright the content you make, just release it out into the public domain. Be the change you want to see. But let's be honest, the people most vocal against Article 13 are those who want to leech other people's creations for free. Not those people actually creating the content.

> the people most vocal against Article 13 are those who want to leech other people's creations for free

If we're going to be completely honest here, this is constructed as a personal attack and therefore doesn't merit the storage it takes up.

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