Are they ever going to release value types?
Yeah that was supposed to be in 12 wasn't it? Everyone is waiting for that, it will obsolete Lombok.
Java 12
51–60 of 478 posts
Re: Java 12
#52Are they ever going to release value types?
Adding values is a huge task because they are a big change at the VM, language, and library level. You can read about some of the latest plans in draft form at https://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/valhalla-spec-expert....
Rest assured progress is being made.
Re: Java 12
#53I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
That's an impressive rant and can't disagree with some of it, but you're nearly a decade behind in your assessment of java in the Enterprise. New deployments of EJB apps have dropped precipitously (never should have existed), and Java still enjoys wide Enterprise use.
Part of the reason big businesses were able to abuse enterprises with their abominable Java server stacks is because corporations were slow to trust open source. But developers persisted and open source became too compelling to ignore, creating the upward pressure to embrace it and break the bloated and overpriced enterprise app server's stranglehold. This likely prevented the demise of Java that you suggest has happened.
In fact, when it comes to enterprise these days, you're pretty much either a Java or a .NET shop.
Re: Java 12
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
What happens if a huge object becomes unreferenced and a new one of the same size is then allocated before the older one is GC'd (and you don't have enough memory to hold both simultaneously)? Does it just crash or does it pause to collect the older objects first?
It won't crash, but what it does is somewhat complicated. There's a section in the OpenJDK wiki addressing this question: https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/shenandoah/Main#Main-F...
> Full GC. If nothing helped, for example, when Degenerated GC had not freed up enough memory, Full GC cycle would happen, and compact the heap to the max. Certain scenarios, like the unusually fragmented heap coupled with implementation performance bugs and overlooks, would be fixed only by Full GC. This last-ditch GC guarantees that application would not fail with OOM, if there is at least some memory is available.
> Usual latency induced: >100 ms, but can be more, especially on a very occupied heap
Seems like it confirms precisely what I wrote? You can get longer pauses the less memory you have left, i.e. the more of the heap you've used...
Re: Java 12
#55I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
> it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence Applets, JavaBeans, and CORBA. What a loss. > Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, That stopped being an issue years ago. OpenJDK is a thing, you know? > Java on the web is dead, I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today. The rest…
> Java on the web is dead,
>> I don't think you have any idea about the hundreds of millions of lines of Java that power the web as you know it today.
Presumably they meant Java in the client, not the server.
Re: Java 12
#56I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
Im loving it, i analyze and fix issues across a lot of platforms and languages and for me java is probably the least troublesome of them all. you will see a lot of good practices and standards established that when trouble hits which i find rarer in java its usally also easy to deal with. Not gonna mention other names but i find the practices and maturity of a lot of more hip languages lacking a lot still.
Re: Java 12
#57I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
There's definitely alot of 'enterprisey' java code out there but that has more to do with the way people code than the language is now. Functional programming(.sort, .map etc) introduced in Java 8 allows more concise code and less boilerplate. Even with Rust, Go, and .Net core out there it's really hard to beat Java's battletested libraries/frameworks and excellent tooling. Java is still very relevent today and will…
Battle tested and tooling really aren't compelling arguments anymore, Java is very middle of the pack in both regards. Go is running as the basis of the next generation infrastructure in Kubernetes, Prometheus, Docker, Terraform... Elixir has revived Erlang, which now has great tooling in mix and is well known for being highly reliable. Go, Javascript, and Rust all have real package managers (even Go with mod) that are bundled with the language and come with auto formatters, vetting tools, etc.
Also, funcitonal programming is a style of programming, not a collection of features. Just because you have a map and sort method and a hacked in lambda syntax doesn't make Java anything less than OO. Multi-Paradigm usually means one paradigm with a bunch of extra crap in there to make bike shedding easier.
Re: Java 12
#58Are they ever going to release value types?
Yeah that was supposed to be in 12 wasn't it? Everyone is waiting for that, it will obsolete Lombok.
No feature is meant to be in a release. A feature will be done when it’s done, though features may be split so that some functionality can land earlier.
Re: Java 12
#59I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
So far I did not find anything comparable to replace Java for website server language. Go is a terrible extremely verbose language without vital features. JavaScript on Node is limited by single-thread and JavaScript itself is a terrible language (along with other dynamic languages like PHP, Python, Perl, Ruby). Rust is awesome, but I don't think that it'll be ever usable for mediocre developers, therefore it can't be a safe choice for ordinary project.
The only reasonable alternative is C#. But it has to go a long way to reach Java's level of stability and trust on non-Windows servers.
Re: Java 12
#60I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
Serious question: Isn't Java still one of the default languages if you are choosing a "safe" language to build and maintain a large piece of software? Considering how long it's been around and how many libraries exist for it now, i've generally viewed it as a language that's: - fast enough for most things without a lot of pitfalls/gotchas - easy enough to read for most developers - easy enough for most developers to…
All of those points are also true for C#, which imho fixes a lot of Java's problems and is a much nicer language. With .Net Core maturing you even get the "runs everywhere" factor (at least everywhere you care about, i.e. Win+Linux+Mac), and Microsoft is a much better vendor than Oracle.