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Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

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Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#51

Post by kilburn »

flyinglizard wrote: post #32

1. Apple takes privacy and data safety seriously. It invests a significant amount of engineering effort into keeping user data safe. It doesn't comply with government requests unless forced, after deploying its vast legal means to hold them back. 2. Other consumer electronics devices aren't built in factories that are any different or better than those of Foxconn. While it doesn't absolve Apple from taking some respo…

1. It does, but do you know what's easier? Not collecting that data unnecessarily in the first place.

2. He does call against mobile devices altogether (see the Cellular Phones section [1]).

3. A company can choose where to conduct business. RMS's opinion is that companies should not conduct business where the laws impose said company to routinely act in ways that are harmful to society.

4. "I know better than them (so I choose what to censor)" and "I do it because otherwise someone else will" are poor defenses from a moral standpoint. RMS is all about morality, not pragmatism. His stance is that bit by bit, slight compromises become landslides.

5. You are free to do as you please, just like RMS is free to disapprove of your support to apple ;)

[1] https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#52

Post by simion314 »

mch82 wrote: post #18

I disagree with the bullets about banning/censoring apps. There are ways to install and run software on iOS without using the AppStore. If developers share source code, people are free to compile and install it using Xcode. It’s also possible to run Python programs using Pythonista. Finally, programs can be run as JavaScript in Safari. Apple definitely controls the AppStore. That makes it less convenient to install p…

Are you aware of the limitations of the methods you describe? If yes it is very dishonest to not mention them, if not you should get the details right(find out how can you share an iOS native app you made with your friends)

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#53

Post by mch82 »

robertAngst wrote: post #17
JimmyAustin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman Stallman has been the leading proponent of software freedom for many, many decades. He isn't inherently against big corps, he is against what a lot of big corps do.

Can anyone on HN explain why software freedom could ever be a bad thing? IE: I only see it as Apple having extreme upfront costs, keeping poor people away from developing.

I have two questions about licenses that require distribution of source code (like GPL & AGPL).

1. Do they limit the freedom of the developer to keep source code private?

2. Do they make it harder to sustain a living wage through the labor of writing software?

I’m fully supportive of “attribution” licenses like MIT, BSD, Apache 2. But, I don’t think Stallman considers those “free software”.

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#54

Post by robertAngst »

jeromegv wrote: post #46
tokyodude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with Google. Google has privacy teams as well which are > quite powerful and forces lots of safeguards about how exactly data can be used. Apple recommends apps based on other apps I've downloaded. So does Google. Apple recommends music based on other music I've played. So does Google. Apple recommends books and movies as well based on similar data. So does Google. Apple keeps track of every placed your Apple de…

You seem to be simplifying things a bit too much. Apple doesn’t keep track of where your device has been. Your iPhone knows but it’s not being sent to Apple. Google has been shown to know this data even when you disable as many location services as you can.

Until one day you agree to an update....

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#55

Post by mark_l_watson »

robertAngst wrote: post #31
azangru wrote: post #9

Most of the reasons in that list are ideological, not technical. I mean, I like listening to RMS, but prefer my choice of technology to be governed by technical reasons, not by what a company does in China or in Russia. Incidentally, given a choice between an Apple machine and a well-functioning GNU/Linux machine I would pick the latter.

>well-functioning GNU/Linux machine I would pick the latter. I love ubuntu server, but cannot do Linux desktop. Maybe you can provide some thoughts- >Mouse acceleration is not the same as Windows Mouse Acceleration. Too much starcraft... sure... but I could not get my perfect mouse settings. >Stuff doesnt work. From Netflix needing a weekend worth of googling to work, to other things that required additional commands…

I bought a laptop from System76 last fall and love it. I have been using Linux since Slackware was first available for download, and I have to say that buying hardware with Linux installed and tuned is great.

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#56

Post by fwdpropaganda »

tokyodude wrote: post #21
why_only_15 wrote: post #7

Apple doesn't really spy on users imo. Internally, the privacy team is quite powerful and forces lots of safeguards about how exactly data can be used.

Same with Google. Google has privacy teams as well which are > quite powerful and forces lots of safeguards about how exactly data can be used. Apple recommends apps based on other apps I've downloaded. So does Google. Apple recommends music based on other music I've played. So does Google. Apple recommends books and movies as well based on similar data. So does Google. Apple keeps track of every placed your Apple de…

HAHAHA stop spreading lies.

Google uses chrome to spy on people.

Here's just a latest example (as with Stallman, you could say that I cherry pick examples, but I assure you I have many many examples like this)

At work, completely new computer, new OS. They gave me chrome by default.

One night late at the office I go on chrome, go on youtube to listen to ONE single song. Tubular Bells, by Mike Oldfied. 40 minutes or something.

Fast forward a few weeks, same situation, I go on youtube, and all recommendations is Mike Oldfield stuff and other stuff from the same era. So far, all normal, yes? What's not normal, is the fact that I've since asked chrome to

- delete everything ever stored

- including all cookies

- I've enabled all privacy settings, including incognito,

- youtube no longer shows that I'm logged in (since I have no cookies),

and despite all this, whenever I go to youtube its recommendations are the same things: Tubular Bells and related. So it's still tracking me, even though I've asked it not to.

Now yes, I'm sure if I make a large enough effort I can fool youtube on chrome. But my point is that the fact that _they give you a "private" option that isn't really private to google is proof of dishonest intentions_.

Compare with Firefox. No one tracks anything with my special sauce settings (block ALL cookies, even first-party, and NoScript). If I temporarily disable NoScript for youtube, youtube doesn't show me Tubular Bells. But whenever I try "private" chrome, there it is.

How does chrome do it? To be honest I'm way past caring "how". Google has shown over and over again what they care about, and that's all I need to know. So PLEASE don't tell me google cares about privacy.

EDIT: Here's another one showing bad intentions. I just learned this this morning from my girlfriend's phone. She uses chrome on mobile. I told her to install ublock origin. She said she tried but didn't work. Guess what. I go to the store, where you'd normally find a green "installed" button with a big tick mark, you find "installed on desktop". Ok thanks google, but I don't want to install it on desktop, I want to install it ON THIS DEVICE I'M USING, and the fact that you show me a green button which is has clearly crafted to make me believe that ublock origin has been installed, is again proof of bad _intentions_. You're intentionally misleading, again.

EDIT2: on the front page right now: https://blog.malwarebytes.com/security-world/2019/03/googles...

EDIT3: Mods could you clarify exactly what this post has wrong that it got flagged?

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#57

Post by Kye »

The last update to Telegram on iOS was two weeks ago. Is the rest of it worth reading if point #1 is wrong?

edit: This last page update was 2018 according to the copyright. The OP didn't put (2018) in the title.

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#58

Post by quantumcd »

tokyodude wrote: post #21
why_only_15 wrote: post #7

Apple doesn't really spy on users imo. Internally, the privacy team is quite powerful and forces lots of safeguards about how exactly data can be used.

Same with Google. Google has privacy teams as well which are > quite powerful and forces lots of safeguards about how exactly data can be used. Apple recommends apps based on other apps I've downloaded. So does Google. Apple recommends music based on other music I've played. So does Google. Apple recommends books and movies as well based on similar data. So does Google. Apple keeps track of every placed your Apple de…

Yeah, something I feel people (particularly who aren't in my normal tech-industry sphere) I hear discussing data privacy seem to think is that the data itself is being sold/shared with third parties. To be fair though, the concept of any sense of privacy from a service built on seemingly invading your privacy is a complex one to digest

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#59

Post by kilburn »

hellofunk wrote: post #29
jpdus wrote: post #24

Wow - regardless of whether one agrees with RMS, alone the fact that this submission has been heavily flagged already (and will thus drop from the frontpage soon) tells you a lot about the power of Apple and their fans here. HN urgently needs to address the flagging problems, this has been the case for many important but controversial topics recently and leads to a degraded quality of frontpage submissions in my view…

I have not flagged this article, partly because I’m curious to see the debate here. But I’m sure those who have flagged it did so because this article is not objective, this is a very extremist position with a lot of cherry picked arguments that are obviously from a personal bias he has against Apple. Many of the points he is specifically isolating for Apple are quite true of most of the big tech firms.

RMS is an extremist, openly and unashamedly. He doesn't try to hide it, he tries to argue that his extremist position is the morally correct and long-term best for society though.

> from a personal bias he has against Apple. Many of the points he is specifically isolating for Apple are quite true of most of the big tech firms.

He bashes all big techs for most of those points too. See the links at the top where he complains about Airbnb, Amazon, Amtrak, Ancestry, Apple, Discord, Ebooks, Eventbrite, Evernote, Facebook, Google, Intel, LinkedIn, Lyft, Meetup, Microsoft, Netflix, Patreon, Pay Toilets, Skype, Slack, Spotify, Twitter, Uber and Wendy's.

If there are missing companies there it is probably because he didn't have the time, not because he does't want to complain about something regarding that specific company ;)

Re: Reasons Not to Use Apple (2018)

#60

Post by anoncake »

mch82 wrote: post #53
robertAngst wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone on HN explain why software freedom could ever be a bad thing? IE: I only see it as Apple having extreme upfront costs, keeping poor people away from developing.

I have two questions about licenses that require distribution of source code (like GPL & AGPL). 1. Do they limit the freedom of the developer to keep source code private? 2. Do they make it harder to sustain a living wage through the labor of writing software? I’m fully supportive of “attribution” licenses like MIT, BSD, Apache 2. But, I don’t think Stallman considers those “free software”.

> But, I don’t think Stallman considers those “free software”.

He does, though they arent copyleft.

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