Has anyone seen a framework for companies to screen emotional skills such as resilience, drive and internal motivations for candidates and have done it well?
School is all about signaling, not skill-building
51–60 of 222 posts
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Software Engineering is a super special exception that does not apply anywhere else.
That's a valid opinion, but it doesn't address the question: do other fields lean more heavily on signaling than others? Does going to a top 10 law school matter more than graduating from a Top 10 CS program?
Many other industries tend to recruit only out of top universities, and getting into them if you didn't go to one is basically impossible. Management consulting, investment banking, hedge funds, philanthropy, many managerial government positions. The way you get into these is through going to a school that places lots of people into those industries, and then work the network.
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Software Engineering is a super special exception that does not apply anywhere else.
That's a valid opinion, but it doesn't address the question: do other fields lean more heavily on signaling than others? Does going to a top 10 law school matter more than graduating from a Top 10 CS program?
I have both law and software engineering degrees and I can tell you without a doubt that yes, the school you graduate from matters much more in law.
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#54Welcome to Earth.
You are a human, and this is [country/city], in the year 2XXX.
We share this planet with many species, but we are the only ones we know that can talk and invent and build.
The light in the sky is a star, and there are other planets around it, but this is the only one we know that has life.
There are many other stars out there that you can see at night, and all of them have planets of their own, and maybe someday you will visit them.
You are in school so you can learn how to do what you want.
...and so on, while showing a montage of places, creatures and inventions. :)
History classes should focus on the inconveniences and uglinesses our species has plodded through ("We did not always have cars or phones or toilets.."), not just a droning journal of events.
Maybe some of you would be interested in creating a YouTube series like this? Perhaps like a Kurzgesagt [0] For Kids?
[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsXVk37bltHxD1rDPwtNM8Q
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#55I think the article seriously underestimated the effort to make it through a thre year degree at an elite college - let's say an MIT mechanical engineering degree - my understanding it is 80 hour weeks, with yearly inflection points where the faculty will try and eliminate the bottom 10% or so. get a first or 2.1 there and you are not signalling attendance but genuine effort. (Any alumni able to comment? ) There are…
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#56He audited all the classes he wanted to... no diploma, but what a great experience (and a great story....)
From the article:
Ponder this: If a student wants to study at Princeton, he doesn’t really need to apply or pay tuition. He can simply show up and start taking classes. As a professor, I assure you that we make near-zero effort to stop unofficial education; indeed, the rare, earnestly curious student touches our hearts. At the end of four years at Princeton, though, the guerrilla student would lack one precious thing: a diploma. The fact that almost no one tries this route — saving hundreds of thousands of dollars along the way — ....
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you really not see it? "Also the prevalence of women in school administration..." Implying that male administrators, purely by being male are not making whatever nebulous errors you complain about.
It’s not about them not making errors or not it’s about them making decisions suitable for women students.
I cant really argue with it because i've honestly no idea which male interests could possibly fall short in the context of a school, but anyway.
your phrasing of the initial statements comes across as sexism, because it sounds more like: "only males can represent all students interests" you probably didn't mean it like that, but that what it sounds like, tbh
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#58Well, that wasn't true for me, and I'm pretty sure for those in engineering or science, it isn't, but even the history, philosophy, and economics courses I took I recall and use. Even Steve Jobs, who merely audited a class on calligraphy, took a great value from it.
The fundamental flaw of Capland argument, who seems to be pushing this theme for years, is to view education purely in terms of economic benefit. It could simultaneously be true that the vast majority of your salary comes from signalling, but it could also be true that you gained great value from your education. Not everyone who gets an advanced education tries to maximize salary.
Capland's analysis, for example, would completely ignore the value of someone who chose to become a teacher or open source contributor.
Also, by induction, you could apply his argument to high school. Do we have evidence during the industrial revolution where blue collar factory work started to require more than an 8th grade education, that it made any difference besides signalling on salary?
Or, if you look at developing economies, where people often experience significant increases in wages as they move up the industrial ladder, sometimes without even full literacy, but merely from on the job experience. Should we assume education isn't worthwhile if you can't show a correlation between education and wages other than signalling?
One of the frustrating things about these kinds of economic analyses is that they narrowing look at only a sliver of what it is to be a human being, or the potential positive market externalities by having educated population. If we just measure the overall social improvements from the education of women, not in terms of individual wage performance, but in terms of overall health of society itself, it can't be reduced to a micro-analysis.
As a side note, I've seen Bryan's work forwarded within libertarian and right wing forums, in large part, to justify arguments to defund and dismantle support for college, both from a cultural aspect (Colleges seen as liberal/left institutions) but also from a notion that they don't want the government funding it. The fact that he's funded by the Cato Institute raises my suspicion that there's a political angle involved.
Even if you could argue college is not producing economic gains, but merely a signal, one has to look at a future where structural unemployment from automation may make a lot of work unneccessary, period. Do we eliminate education when work is no longer a necessity? Or could it be, that it might be better if people have a lifelong opportunity for intellectual enlightenment, it might be cheaper than funding prisons to house them, or falling back to religious institutions to give humans something to do that has meaning besides straight up consumption.
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#59“If a student wants to study at Princeton, he doesn’t really need to apply or pay tuition. He can simply show up and start taking classes. As a professor, I assure you that we make near-zero effort to stop unofficial education; indeed, the rare, earnestly curious student touches our hearts. At the end of four years at Princeton, though, the guerrilla student would lack one precious thing: a diploma. The fact that alm…
Re: School is all about signaling, not skill-building
#60I think the article seriously underestimated the effort to make it through a thre year degree at an elite college - let's say an MIT mechanical engineering degree - my understanding it is 80 hour weeks, with yearly inflection points where the faculty will try and eliminate the bottom 10% or so. get a first or 2.1 there and you are not signalling attendance but genuine effort. (Any alumni able to comment? ) There are…