Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

news.bioscholar.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 80 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#51

Post by zandorg »

Tichy wrote: post #23
dominiek wrote: post #13

I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee. Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C has completely dropped the ball. Facebook and Twitter have been catalyzing internet adoption and the general spread of information. Mr. Berners-Lee's obsession about content-silos shows that there is a seriou…

Facebook dominating the web is a horror scenario.What good could you see about it? Do you want to pay a Facebook tax for every online innovation you can come up with? Do you want to be at their mercy for the survival of your business? My only hope is that in the long run freedom of innovation will always be stronger than a walled garden like Facebook. I thought Berners-Lee invented the web - how can he get too much c…

I know Ted Nelson personally. He invented the word hypertext. I'd say inventing that word proves him the father of hypertext, though Tim was the midwife.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#52

Post by stanleydrew »

LostInTheWoods2 wrote: post #36
Tichy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook dominating the web is a horror scenario.What good could you see about it? Do you want to pay a Facebook tax for every online innovation you can come up with? Do you want to be at their mercy for the survival of your business? My only hope is that in the long run freedom of innovation will always be stronger than a walled garden like Facebook. I thought Berners-Lee invented the web - how can he get too much c…

Facebook, Google, Twitter, Youtube, etc. These services thrive because they fill one or more holes that exist in the protocol space of the web. Eventually, these services should just be made into standard web protocols. What is truly disturbing is the slow pace at which new protocols are folded into the web. Perhaps that is a problem that should be addressed. Until then, we will keep seeing all these services being b…

I don't understand what you're getting at. Why do new "protocols" need to be folded into the web?

The web can't ever be as well-managed and patched as Linux is. The web doesn't have a pre-defined scope. It's more like a transport layer for content and other services. And I'd like to see it stay that way; companies will compete and innovate way faster than any small standards committee or group of maintainers will.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#53

Post by nhangen »

mseebach wrote: post #45
nhangen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who really needs "aggregated, passive flow of opportunities to stay in touch?" These are proxy relationships. Friends are welcome to call me, but I don't want to be involved in their lives 24/7, nor do I want the opportunity.

Well, if "do we really need this" was a viable yardstick for the value of innovation, nothing significant would have been invented in the past 100 years. And telling me that the relationships I have on Facebook are worth less that not having them at all because they are on Facebook rather than on the phone(x) is incredibly arrogant and, well, none of your business. (x) Never mind that they would have significant trou…

I never said it was. However, you're implying that other solutions missing this means that they are not valuable or effective, which is just as wrong. It's purely subjective.

I'm not talking about your relationships either...I could care less. That's my point. Facebook is what it is, but just because it's popular does not mean it's necessary.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#54

Post by treblig »

SimonPStevens wrote: post #4

Here's what I use instead of Facebook: Google calendar for events - Anyone with any email address can be invited to an event. Google calendar also emails out standard format .ics files with it's invites so participants are free to use whatever calendar app they choose and just import the ics files. (This also hooks up nicely with my android calendar). I'm looking forward to when everyone on Facebook gets an @facebook…

Let me know when your friend invites you to a party on Facebook and you get it via Google Calendar. I'll be the guy by the bar while you're at home. Your friends couldn't care less what an .ics is.

My mom doesn't care about "openness". She cares what I put on my Facebook wall.

Photo alternative: cute. I'll never go to your Flickr page. I've seen ~100 pictures today of Thanksgiving celebrations, because they were in my News Feed.

Messages: Most of my FB messagers are spam, but what do you think is the easiest way to message a 14-year-old?

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#55

Post by gloob »

treblig wrote: post #54
SimonPStevens wrote: post #4

Here's what I use instead of Facebook: Google calendar for events - Anyone with any email address can be invited to an event. Google calendar also emails out standard format .ics files with it's invites so participants are free to use whatever calendar app they choose and just import the ics files. (This also hooks up nicely with my android calendar). I'm looking forward to when everyone on Facebook gets an @facebook…

Let me know when your friend invites you to a party on Facebook and you get it via Google Calendar. I'll be the guy by the bar while you're at home. Your friends couldn't care less what an .ics is. My mom doesn't care about "openness". She cares what I put on my Facebook wall. Photo alternative: cute. I'll never go to your Flickr page. I've seen ~100 pictures today of Thanksgiving celebrations, because they were in m…

Maybe my social circle is just old fashioned, but my friends and family actually care whether I come to their events. That means that they have means other than Facebook to contact me with, since I'm not on the site. Maybe your mom would just stop communicating with you if you weren't on Facebook, though; I don't pretend to know what your situation is like.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#56

Post by GHFigs »

EliRivers wrote: post #15
arethuza wrote: post #5

So if Facebook is so bad, someone please come up with a compelling high level vision of what could replace it and why the replacement would be better? Preferably something as compelling as Sir Tim's original vision for the Web...

I've got an idea. How about if you want a presence on the web, you have this website that you control with whatever data and pictures you want on it? Coders can develop things we'll call content management systems to make it a bit easier for you to put your data on there if you don't want to do it all yourself, and since you'll control it, you can add whatever tools and automation and widgets and the like.

you have this website that you control

...and suddenly you've taken on about a million problems that are tangential to the problem of keeping in touch with people.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#59

Post by T_S_ »

In a world where people take out payday loans at 400% is it any a surprise that they would incur technical debt in managing their content? The typical user thinks about the interaction with other users, not the content.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#60

Post by Tichy »

zandorg wrote: post #51
Tichy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook dominating the web is a horror scenario.What good could you see about it? Do you want to pay a Facebook tax for every online innovation you can come up with? Do you want to be at their mercy for the survival of your business? My only hope is that in the long run freedom of innovation will always be stronger than a walled garden like Facebook. I thought Berners-Lee invented the web - how can he get too much c…

I know Ted Nelson personally. He invented the word hypertext. I'd say inventing that word proves him the father of hypertext, though Tim was the midwife.

Sorry, but inventing the word really isn't good enough. I think the concept might actually predate the web for a couple of decades (too lazy to check Wikipedia right now). I seem to remember seeing an article on HN about a guy who invented it all long before there were even computers.

Also, maybe Tim found the right mix of ingredients. No idea, but perhaps early hypertext concepts did not include distributed documents, for example?

Post reply on HN