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Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

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Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#51

Post by g3rv4 »

zavi wrote: post #50
g3rv4 wrote: post #35

ugh, as a developer from a remote country that’s been working for 10+ years for US companies I run as fast as possible from companies like this one. If I provide the same value as US engineers, why should I make less than US engineers? Fortunately, I’ve been able to make my case. I hope these Indian engineers realize they’re making 1/15th what they should.

Salaries are determined by supply & demand, not by how engineers feel, what they "realize", or what they create in terms of value.

at a macro level? sure. At a micro level, had I been convinced that my pay was fair (it was enough to cover my needs and save) and not asked for more, I’d be making upwork money.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#52

Post by paxy »

scrumbledober wrote: post #37
paxy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top Indian talent did go to the US by default, but that peaked ~10 years ago. Nowadays there is enough opportunity in India - and the US immigration process is bad enough - that most people I know just don't bother. The visa backlog is almost entirely made up of the tech equivalent of minimum wage workers, all sponsored by Infosys/TCS and other consulting firms. And the "SLIGHTLY below US salaries" part is an exagger…

most of America is significantly below the high-end of Silicon Valley rate.

Yes but the article is about the latter.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#53

Post by phaedryx »

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #41
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many people can't stand the influence LDS has on culture, alcohol, nightlife, sexuality, dating, etc. It's huge there.

Also, no one talks about it but the smog is absolutely out of control.

I live a bit south, so not so bad here, but a fair point. Wintertime + smog is a real bummer.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#54

Post by thorwasdfasdf »

I remember back in the 2000s there was a huge fear of work being outsourced to India. It makes sense: since you can get engineers for 10 times less cost. But these fears never really materialized. there was still so much hiring in the bay area for the last 20 years.

Certainly low-margin businesses that need to compete will be hiring in India. That's probably why you don't see many web development body shops in the bay area. But, for monopoly businesses like google or facebook, the cost of labor doesn't really matter much for them.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#55

Post by crushcrashcrush »

umvi wrote: post #49
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many people can't stand the influence LDS has on culture, alcohol, nightlife, sexuality, dating, etc. It's huge there.

Apparently "LDS" is out, "Church of Jesus Christ" is the new name. They are even abandoning the LDS.org TLD

Rebrands are fun! I wish them the best.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#56

Post by PopeDotNinja »

After struggling to hire top-notch engineers in the bay area as salaries started to spiral beyond reason, we decided to conduct a radical experiment in trying to train overseas developer talent on our tech stack before hiring them.

TL;DR -- They have rebranded unpaid internships.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#57

Post by opportune »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #56

After struggling to hire top-notch engineers in the bay area as salaries started to spiral beyond reason, we decided to conduct a radical experiment in trying to train overseas developer talent on our tech stack before hiring them. TL;DR -- They have rebranded unpaid internships.

Even worse, they did for people likely much poorer than the average unpaid intern in the US and the main value proposition was probably them dangling visas

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#58

Post by opportune »

pageandrew wrote: post #20
nostrademons wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the salary differential between top engineer in the Bay Area vs. top engineer in the Midwest is more like 2-3x than 10-15x.

OK, it's not 2-3x. Especially if we're talking salary. Salary for a top individual contributor engineer in the Bay Area (full stack), outside of specific skillsets like ML/AI, will top out around $200k. Midwest, someone with the same skillset would probably make $125-150k.

this is not true for TC at all, case in point see levels.fyi. $200k is basically one level above a new grad at some of the higher paying, well known companies

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#59

Post by gotocake »

compiler-guy wrote: post #46
gotocake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of a few issues there isn’t much influence, unless you’re in the church. One nice thing about Mormons is that at least outside of a missionary context abroad, they take “no” for an answer with grace. I wouldn’t want to join their club, but I like them as neighbors. Their cooking can be a little uninspiring, but the hospitality and friendliness is world class. SLC is also a gorgeous part of the world, if you l…

"The Liquor laws of Utah regulate the selling and purchasing of alcohol in the United States state of Utah and are some of the most restrictive in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Utah Mormons account for nearly 90 percent of state Legislature https://www.apnews.com/286983987f484cb182fba9334c52a617 Utah is America's worst state for women's equality in 2018, study shows https://kutv.co…

Yep, if you’re a big drinker Utah can be a little rough, although personally when I was there on business I never had a problem. From my perspective as a non-religious person and a non-Christian I also don’t find Mormonism any stranger than other sects of Christianity either, but again if they make you uncomfortable Utah is to be avoided as a place to live. As for the last point, I suppose it could be for some very broad definitions of equality.

Your link references this survey: https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-for-women-eq...

I don’t find it massively convincing, but YMMV.

Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area

#60

Post by returnInfinity »

paxy wrote: post #36
balls187 wrote: post #33

If you're an engineer in India with skills that mirror those of American engineers, why would you settle for a significantly lower pay? The best Indian engineers I've worked with all made their way over to the US OR knew how much they were worth and set their rates SLIGHTLY below US salaries.

Top Indian talent did go to the US by default, but that peaked ~10 years ago. Nowadays there is enough opportunity in India - and the US immigration process is bad enough - that most people I know just don't bother. The visa backlog is almost entirely made up of the tech equivalent of minimum wage workers, all sponsored by Infosys/TCS and other consulting firms. And the "SLIGHTLY below US salaries" part is an exagger…

Top talent is still going at 1/3.
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