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Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

#51

Post by rhn_mk1 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #47
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defrauds the customer without the customer suffering harm How does that work? I don't think this position is defensible, and I also don't think this is what's happening: the customer is defrauded by bearing a risk they did not choose.

It's stipulated that the risk cannot hurt them. The risk you describe is that they don't know whether they're getting what they want or not. But if they're not, that is the first category, product not as described.

In that light, I cannot see how it's different than "not as described". If there is no damage (no one can be hurt), then this does not deserve to be called fraud. Any mitigation would also be wrong on the grounds of wasting time and resources for zero benefit.

Re: Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

#52

Post by ValentineC »

iwalton3 wrote: post #15
magnetic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, how will this help with things like fake SD cards? Those are usually sold unbranded. How can an unbranded SD card be fake? Fake with respect to what? A brand brings this value: expectations. If I buy a no-brand item, I'm not sure what expectations I can have, and I'm not sure I can even claim that it's a fake, since I have no reference point as "the true item". I mean that's literally the biggest value that a b…

A fake SD card is one that doesn't store all the data it claims to. There are SD cards on Amazon that claim to store 64 GB (or whatever), but they really store a fraction of that, with firmware that lies to the user and corrupts the data they try to store beyond the actual capacity.

> There are SD cards on Amazon that claim to store 64 GB (or whatever), but they really store a fraction of that, with firmware that lies to the user and corrupts the data they try to store beyond the actual capacity.

I wonder: is it possible for an operating system or filesystem to prevent this from happening?

Re: Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

#53

Post by CharlesColeman »

stcredzero wrote: post #49
CharlesColeman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, most of the knock offs really relied on also knocking off the branding of the original, so searching on the brand name very specifically found all of the knock offs. That's only one class of knock off, and the easiest kind to police. > If they are operating at a pace where they get quantity wrong, just who at Amazon is going to take the time to inspect items and distinguish the fakes? That's a really w…

That's only one class of knock off, and the easiest kind to police. What are the other classes of knock offs? That's a really weird assertion, since Amazon's current practices are totally irrelevant. I don't think it's weird at all. If Amazon is going to have human beings checking for knock-offs, they are going to have to look at physical items at one point. I have seen many complaints that in many cases, the origina…

> I have seen many complaints that in many cases, the original manufacturer's Amazon Fulfillment stocks are intermixed with the counterfeits. The people working knock-off policing are going to be running around the same space as the item runners.

They won't be if Amazon stops commingling stock from different sources.

Dumping everything into a big pile, then expecting pickers (or some other kind of hurried low-level worker) to sort out the fake/counterfeit items is probably the most impractical and inefficient way possible of addressing this problem.

Amazon's problem is on the "input" side, so they should solve it there.

> Why not start a competing online marketplace, with better policing of knock-offs?

Someone could totally do that, but I was talking about fixing the problem at Amazon. No marketplace should be offering fakes and knockoffs, so competition isn't going to be a panacea.

Re: Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

#54

Post by stcredzero »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #53
stcredzero wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only one class of knock off, and the easiest kind to police. What are the other classes of knock offs? That's a really weird assertion, since Amazon's current practices are totally irrelevant. I don't think it's weird at all. If Amazon is going to have human beings checking for knock-offs, they are going to have to look at physical items at one point. I have seen many complaints that in many cases, the origina…

> I have seen many complaints that in many cases, the original manufacturer's Amazon Fulfillment stocks are intermixed with the counterfeits. The people working knock-off policing are going to be running around the same space as the item runners. They won't be if Amazon stops commingling stock from different sources. Dumping everything into a big pile, then expecting pickers (or some other kind of hurried low-level w…

Amazon's problem is on the "input" side, so they should solve it there.

No disagreement. I think there will be come corporate inertial to overcome, however.

No marketplace should be offering fakes and knockoffs, so competition isn't going to be a panacea.

Given that people are already going to alternatives because of this precise issue, it's quite likely the market will mount a specific response, if it hasn't already. The market isn't a panacea. Panaceas don't exist. However, sometimes the market can respond in a good or at least adequate way.

Re: Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

#55

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

ikeboy wrote: post #50
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong; if it were true, Amazon wouldn't have such a huge problem. Amazon don't know which seller it's from if it's Fulfilled by Amazon comingled inventory. You can literally ship plastic bricks to Amazon with the right UPC codes on them, ask Amazon to return some of the inventory, and get back actual products with that code that were sent to Amazon by other sellers.

This is true but doesn't mean Amazon doesn't know who sends what. As long as they track which box contains which units it doesn't matter if they ship A's stock for B's sales or returns, they still know it was A's stock.

They don't track that, if they did they wouldn't have the problem.

Re: Amazon to give power to brands to remove fakes from website

#56

Post by ikeboy »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #55
ikeboy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but doesn't mean Amazon doesn't know who sends what. As long as they track which box contains which units it doesn't matter if they ship A's stock for B's sales or returns, they still know it was A's stock.

They don't track that, if they did they wouldn't have the problem.

They claim they track it, I obviously don't run their warehouses but I don't think they'd explicitly claim it works one way if it doesn't.

Why do you think keeping stock separate instantly solves a counterfeit problem?

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