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German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

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Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#51

Post by Velchronus »

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #16

Why aren't American Internet giants react like it was done with SOPA?

The author of the piece take a guess:

> But if a company is too small to afford licenses, it's also too small to build filters. Google's Content ID for YouTube cost a reported €100 million to build and run, and it only does a fraction of the blocking required under Article 13. That means that they'll have to buy filter services from someone else. The most likely filter vendors are the US Big Tech companies like Google and Facebook, who will have to build and run filters anyway, and could recoup their costs by renting access to these filters to smaller competitors.

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#52

Post by Mirioron »

stavros wrote: post #24
Mirioron wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR. It has some good parts, but a lot of bad in it as well.

You're going to be searching for a long time to find a piece of legislation that only has good parts in it. The GDPR is overwhelmingly positive, and a massive step towards ensuring privacy online. In my opinion, it has been pretty overwhelmingly a net positive, whereas article 13 is a clusterfuck that made me come up with a Cloudflare rule to block EU visitors from accessing sites (and yes, that includes myself): htt…

I don't need a legislation to only have good parts in it, but I do want it to do more good than bad. GDPR does not do that. The harm it causes for internet businesses in the EU in the long term is going to be too much. It's already making EU companies less competitive[1] and it'll become worse as time goes on.

[1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3278912

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#53

Post by doh »

Horrendous law with an incredibly severe consequences to us all. And I'm saying this as the one benefiting most as my company is the ultimate upload filter (we are orders of magnitude larger than Content ID [0]).

We are not going to stand by idly and let it to wipe out all competition because they can't afford to be compliant with this idiotic law. As such, we are making our services free to all rights holders and platforms [1]. This is the best way we, as a company, can fight the law and make sure that it will have the least negative impact as possible.

[0] https://twitter.com/synopsi/status/1102655191654981632

[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CLybxCFg_gz4n62UqVr3XEsy...

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#54

Post by jackewiehose »

doh wrote: post #53

Horrendous law with an incredibly severe consequences to us all. And I'm saying this as the one benefiting most as my company is the ultimate upload filter (we are orders of magnitude larger than Content ID [0]). We are not going to stand by idly and let it to wipe out all competition because they can't afford to be compliant with this idiotic law. As such, we are making our services free to all rights holders and pl…

Well, thanks. But using your service doesn't feel like "fighting the law". It's just complying with the law by being dependent on one generous external company.

I (as a European consumer) would rather prefer that the big platforms like youtube/reddit/facebook just shut down their European presence in response to these kind of laws.

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#55

Post by doh »

jackewiehose wrote: post #54
doh wrote: post #53

Horrendous law with an incredibly severe consequences to us all. And I'm saying this as the one benefiting most as my company is the ultimate upload filter (we are orders of magnitude larger than Content ID [0]). We are not going to stand by idly and let it to wipe out all competition because they can't afford to be compliant with this idiotic law. As such, we are making our services free to all rights holders and pl…

Well, thanks. But using your service doesn't feel like "fighting the law". It's just complying with the law by being dependent on one generous external company. I (as a European consumer) would rather prefer that the big platforms like youtube/reddit/facebook just shut down their European presence in response to these kind of laws.

> I (as a European consumer) would rather prefer that the big platforms like youtube/reddit/facebook just shut down their European presence in response to these kind of laws.

You know the complete opposite will happen. Those are literally the only ones that can comply "easily" with the law. What about the rest?

> Well, thanks. But it doesn't feel like "fighting the law". It's just complying with the law by being dependent on one generous external company.

I'm on this with you. I'm European living in US. I don't want this law any more you do. I'm still hoping the law is going to be dropped. But even then, the law will eventually come back in some form or shape. So we are trying to find a sustainable way for others to comply with it and be able to compete with the giants.

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#56

Post by [deleted] »

doh wrote: post #53

Horrendous law with an incredibly severe consequences to us all. And I'm saying this as the one benefiting most as my company is the ultimate upload filter (we are orders of magnitude larger than Content ID [0]). We are not going to stand by idly and let it to wipe out all competition because they can't afford to be compliant with this idiotic law. As such, we are making our services free to all rights holders and pl…

[deleted]

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#57

Post by stavros »

Mirioron wrote: post #52
stavros wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to be searching for a long time to find a piece of legislation that only has good parts in it. The GDPR is overwhelmingly positive, and a massive step towards ensuring privacy online. In my opinion, it has been pretty overwhelmingly a net positive, whereas article 13 is a clusterfuck that made me come up with a Cloudflare rule to block EU visitors from accessing sites (and yes, that includes myself): htt…

I don't need a legislation to only have good parts in it, but I do want it to do more good than bad. GDPR does not do that. The harm it causes for internet businesses in the EU in the long term is going to be too much. It's already making EU companies less competitive[1] and it'll become worse as time goes on. [1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3278912

Yes, all regulation makes companies less competitive than unregulated companies. That's why you regulate everyone.

Whats the harm of the GDPR?

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#58

Post by pluma »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #8
pluma wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sheer irony of hearing people get their tinfoil hats in a bunch over the inevitability of an EU firewall because of a copyright reform that neatly dovetails the copyright overreach the US has tried to push in Europe for decades just because this time it's European newspaper publishers instead of RIAA and MPAA is physically painful to me at this point.

Are you not displaying Whataboutism / Tu Quoque here? How is it relevant for the question whether the EU will need / institute filters that the US as a disagreeable copy-right system?

Citing irrelevant logical fallacies is not an argument. Also way to "move the goalposts" (see? I can do it too). It's relevant to the alleged inevitability of a Chinese-style firewall in the EU.

If it wasn't inevitable in the US and if it wasn't inevitable when it was only RIAA/MPAA enforcing copyright, what is different this time?

Article 13 restricts the safe harbor provision to sites using upload filters (or sites that are explicitly exempt). There is no logical progression from that to a Great Firewall that wouldn't also have been present in US enforcement of copyright against Napster, The Pirate Bay, MEGA etc.

The GDPR (even if most neo-libs here think it's evil incarnate) is entirely orthogonal to literal censorship.

As I said, the closest thing would be the blocking (in Germany, not the EU) of nazi propaganda and extremely illegal content (read: child abuse) -- which have nothing to do with the recent EU legislations and are therefore an entirely separate discussion to be had.

Maybe the UK's "opt-out" modesty filter also falls in this category but as Theresa May is still happy to point out, the UK is leaving the EU, so it's hardly a good reference point for the future of EU legislation.

So if none of these things uniquely point to a future of Chinese-style censorship in the EU, what other than American Exceptionalism makes the current situation different from all the other situations in which we did not end up with said Great Firewall of Europe?

Article 13 is bad. Upload filters are bad. But please educate me how making unsubstantiated claims about how the EU is basically already China is supposed to be contributing to a healthy discussion but providing and then dismantling the obvious arguments OP chose to omit is somehow fallacious and irrelevant?

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#59

Post by pluma »

ahartmetz wrote: post #31
expertentipp wrote: post #29

If advisory of German specialists from the either side will make the internet in the EU anything like the internet in Germany, in any regard, people will be really pissed. Kindly bugger off and let decide those from the places were the internet works.

That comment makes no sense in this context.

It's omitting a lot of context.

Article 13 (and 11) is heavily inspired by pre-existing laws and drafts in Germany (and France), which are heavily lobbied by print publishers (much like US copyright law legislation is heavily lobbied by the MPAA and RIAA).

So while the changes aren't as controversial in Germany (although e.g. the Leistungsschutzrecht is still fairly recent and controversial) they're not likely to be as easily accepted throughout the rest of the EU.

Of course the obvious caveat is that MEPs don't necessarily vote in alignment with their country's population. Because of the lower voter turnout they have fewer constituents while they're also a more lucrative target for industrial lobbying.

Re: German Data Privacy Commissioner Says Article 13 Inevitably Leads to Filters

#60

Post by Mirioron »

stavros wrote: post #57
Mirioron wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need a legislation to only have good parts in it, but I do want it to do more good than bad. GDPR does not do that. The harm it causes for internet businesses in the EU in the long term is going to be too much. It's already making EU companies less competitive[1] and it'll become worse as time goes on. [1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3278912

Yes, all regulation makes companies less competitive than unregulated companies. That's why you regulate everyone. Whats the harm of the GDPR?

Less competitive companies means that we won't have these types companies in the EU. We are already doing very poorly when it comes to anything related to computer technology and this will make it even worse.
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