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A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

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Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#51

Post by Yptur »

agent008t wrote: post #43
lucideer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

I think it is because the last to move makes the greatest profit. So people just wait to be the last wave of available apartments so they can hike the price up to whatever. Which leads to a bottleneck of sorts since nobody is willing to demand lower rent which would actually lead to people moving in...

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#52

Post by JansjoFromIkea »

The reason I didn't even consider Dublin over London or another major European had little to do with the rent prices as it had to do public transportation.

Being dependent on mainly in Dublin means you'll likely want to restrict yourself to areas which can get you to your workplace with zero connections (and everyone else who works in your general area will probably feel the same). Being an especially wet country (nowhere near as bad as the west of Ireland, mind), means even this is gonna be an utter misery many mornings and evenings. As far as nightlife is concerned, with a better public transportation system you can get away for ages by just continuing to push stuff further out.

In London I've the option if I want to live pretty far out (but still on a line that stops near my office) and live alone for not a whole lot more (if anything) than I'd pay to live within walking distance and share. Hardly anyone I know on my pay level in Dublin could even consider living alone, which puts even further pressure on living as near to work as possible.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#53

Post by gtbcb »

Yptur wrote: post #51
agent008t wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

I think it is because the last to move makes the greatest profit. So people just wait to be the last wave of available apartments so they can hike the price up to whatever. Which leads to a bottleneck of sorts since nobody is willing to demand lower rent which would actually lead to people moving in...

This doesn't make sense to me. I don't think apartment complexes or individual landlords (who generally aren't super sophisticated) are thinking this way. Also, I just don't think this logic is sound. An individual landlord (or apartment) isn't going to affect the market as a whole.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#54

Post by agent008t »

Yptur wrote: post #51
agent008t wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

I think it is because the last to move makes the greatest profit. So people just wait to be the last wave of available apartments so they can hike the price up to whatever. Which leads to a bottleneck of sorts since nobody is willing to demand lower rent which would actually lead to people moving in...

Could they not increase the price in the following years if the market price goes up?

An apartment sitting idle should be a disaster - the higher rent obtained in the following years would need to be significantly higher just to break even in terms of yield.

I would've thought as full occupancy as possible at all times, i.e. renting out at market rates, would be the most profitable strategy.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#56

Post by barry-cotter »

purple_ducks wrote: post #36
wheybags wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partially because people don't want it to be, too. Irish people have an obsession with land, and see any dwelling that isn't at least a semidetached house with a back garden as a "temporary space" for students and unmarried young couples. We just don't like apartments.

> We just don't like apartments. People have legitimate reasons for not liking apartments in Dublin of which noise is a major reason. Lax planning & building regs. dictated to politicians by developers ensured that apartments were small and had neighbours on pretty much every side. Most people who left apartments did so for valid reasons, not an obsession with land. Living long term in 98% of apartments in Dublin wou…

I’m Irish and I live in a 60 square metre flat with my wife and we’re expecting a baby. I can distinctly hear one neighbour’s music most evenings and while the other is quieter I can hear them shagging. This is not a big deal. If most of the population of Shanghai can do it Irish people can too. My quality of life is great.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#57

Post by agent008t »

dubliner9039 wrote: post #47
agent008t wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

It's a very typical pattern in speculative finance

It kind of makes sense if the apartment is more valuable as new than as having been rented out before. But I do not think that is the case in Dublin.

Even if the apartment prices are rising rapidly and you plan to sell the apartment once the price goes up - why not also collect rental yield while you are waiting?

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#58

Post by duggan »

alexgmcm wrote: post #34
narrator wrote: post #23

Tech workers move into a city and drive up rents. They complain about lack of density driving rents up. Meanwhile, New York and Chicago are not really tech hubs, even though they have dense downtowns. Hong Kong should be the center of the tech universe with all that density, but alas it is not. Maybe the thing that makes tech workers want to live and work somewhere is lack of density?

Given many tech workers can work remotely it seems bizarre that we even need to live in city centres. But alas, businesses still want everyone in the office (often all the time as well).

I mean, a convenient commute is nice, but so is access to cinemas, museums, restaurants, bars, etc.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#59

Post by purple_ducks »

barry-cotter wrote: post #56
purple_ducks wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We just don't like apartments. People have legitimate reasons for not liking apartments in Dublin of which noise is a major reason. Lax planning & building regs. dictated to politicians by developers ensured that apartments were small and had neighbours on pretty much every side. Most people who left apartments did so for valid reasons, not an obsession with land. Living long term in 98% of apartments in Dublin wou…

I’m Irish and I live in a 60 square metre flat with my wife and we’re expecting a baby. I can distinctly hear one neighbour’s music most evenings and while the other is quieter I can hear them shagging. This is not a big deal. If most of the population of Shanghai can do it Irish people can too. My quality of life is great.

I lived in a "nice" apartment which had neighbours attached above, below, to the back & 2 to the same side(staggered, joined apt blocks).

There was 0 chance of being able to sit quietly in that apartment and just concentrate or listen to music at an ambient level.

It's great that your tolerance level for noise is that high - most peoples' aren't, thus the constant exodus to the surrounding counties to get a house(which itself is no longer doable with a sane commute (Dublin's population is 1.3 million. It's not London. It's not San Francisco. It's not New York.

Re: A sold-out city? The fight to save Dublin’s nightlife

#60

Post by lucideer »

agent008t wrote: post #43
lucideer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many commenters here repeating this mantra "just build higher, just build denser", with seemingly no grip of facts about property in Dublin. There's no restrictions on height nor density in the Docklands area of Dublin: an area within walking distance of the centre of the city, and with a good regular tram link, that is mostly vacant. Similarly, many areas on major tram routes are not so restricted, such…

Why would the property owners rather have the units sit empty than rent them out at market rates?

There's been plenty of papers published on this topic in far greater detail than I'd ever go into in a short HN comment, but the short answer is: property is a financial asset for owners, rather than a source of rent. This is largely about scale: these are large international owners, with significant property investments worldwide.

If you search for "financialisation of property" or "financialisation of housing", you'll find quite a lot of research in this area (mostly paywalled :( ) but also quite a few elucidating articles.

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