Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#51

Post by wahern »

beaner wrote: post #40
anigbrowl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the market seems not to have magically provided a supply of housing that is adequate for the market to reach an affordable equilibrium. I agree the article should have mentioned it and am also skeptical about the efficacy of rent control, but other approaches don't seem to be working out as hoped.

Is there local regulation or NIMBY-ism that prevents the market from providing new housing?

In San Francisco rent control only applies to pre-1979 buildings. Ceteris paribus, this incentivizes new construction to replace rent-controlled buildings. So why isn't there more supply? Because of zoning, approval, and the NIMBY activism that has captured those processes.

Removing or abstaining from rent control wouldn't address the fundamental problems. Indeed, I'd argue that expanded rent control could be used as a stick to pull the renters lobby away from NIMBY activists who have convinced renters that any new construction is against their interests.

Rent control can be viewed as a type of wealth transfer (social welfare) that all economists implicitly presume will be used to ameliorate distribution and dislocation inequities. Because "tax" is a four letter word in our society and cash transfers both stigmatized and disfavored, we rely on regulatory machinations like rent control or trade tariffs to implement the kind of wealth transfers that economists all presume would be done with taxes and cash payments.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#52

Post by metabeard »

broccolistem wrote: post #19

In Québec we've had province-wide rent control since at least the early 70's. Landlords are allowed to raise rent annually up to a certain percentage determined by inflation (last year, up to 2.5%). Rent raises can also be appealed to the housing board if they seem unfair, or if the landlord has not been keeping up with maintenance. Prices can go up if significant renovations occur (which they almost never do), but e…

That price doesn't seem realistic.

https://montreal.craigslist.org/d/apts-housing-for-rent/sear...

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#55

Post by claudiulodro »

ummonk wrote: post #18

Rent control is nativism just like prop 13. Provides special economic benefits unavailable to newcomers.

That's sort of the whole point, though. Long-time Portlanders are frustrated at getting priced out of the rentals they live in, as rents increase faster then their salaries increase because of newcomers competing for the same supply.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#56

Post by ElijahLynn »

Great news! (Oregonian here) We were kinda pushed into buying our first home because our rent went up $100/month in 2017 and then $200/month in 2018.. I saw where that was headed and we made home buying happen way sooner than we wanted too.

Glad to see this is being addressed because some just can't make that happen.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#57

Post by ElijahLynn »

ElijahLynn wrote: post #56

Great news! (Oregonian here) We were kinda pushed into buying our first home because our rent went up $100/month in 2017 and then $200/month in 2018.. I saw where that was headed and we made home buying happen way sooner than we wanted too. Glad to see this is being addressed because some just can't make that happen.

I see a lot of comments referring to a study that says it does more harm than good and I haven't read into them yet but my first question is: Does it measure the impact it has on community? As in does it take into account the fact that a community needs residents to stick around, not just live in boxes and not interact with each other. Because my experience with a $100 then $200/month rent increase showed me that it is going to destroy the community of long time renters in the neighborhood. Hopefully it addresses that.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#58

Post by hanging »

anigbrowl wrote: post #26
twoodfin wrote: post #6

Bizarre to not mention the long-standing, broad consensus among economists that rent controls do more harm than good. Courtesy Wikipedia, here’s Paul Krugman in 2000: https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent... Surely if economists were so widely in support of such policies, the Times would have highlighted that fact.

And yet the market seems not to have magically provided a supply of housing that is adequate for the market to reach an affordable equilibrium. I agree the article should have mentioned it and am also skeptical about the efficacy of rent control, but other approaches don't seem to be working out as hoped.

The broad market is in equilibrium. SV doesn't define the broad market, nor does Flint MI or Gary IN.

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#59

Post by nosuchthing »

ds wrote: post #50
nosuchthing wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by vacancy controls leading to reduced rental stock and lowering property values? If high rent is the issue, vacant units should be pushed to the market instead of artificially limiting supply. Cities and residents would mutually benefit from a vacancy tax like Vancouver or similar, where international speculators are not using the units for anything useful to anyone in the city.

I can easily explain this. Two buildings are for sale. They are identical in rental income, quality, etc.. and cost the same. The only difference between the two buildings is that one has enormous restrictions on how you own and operate the building. You as a landlord will have a cap on your potential upside in rent, but NO cap in the downside. Which building will you buy, all other facts equal? Unless you are insane…

What value does the expensive building offer the city if it's exactly the same?

You've actually just convinced me rent control might do a city good by pushing capital investors into more useful pursuits, rather than simply "investing in land" which effectively does nothing of value for people.

I do think it's silly to treat the symptom without fixing the main problem which is zoning law and permit restrictions on building more housing stock. But why not both?

Might as well add the Land Value Tax while we're at it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

Re: Oregon expected to enact first state-wide rent control law

#60

Post by leereeves »

nosuchthing wrote: post #59
ds wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can easily explain this. Two buildings are for sale. They are identical in rental income, quality, etc.. and cost the same. The only difference between the two buildings is that one has enormous restrictions on how you own and operate the building. You as a landlord will have a cap on your potential upside in rent, but NO cap in the downside. Which building will you buy, all other facts equal? Unless you are insane…

What value does the expensive building offer the city if it's exactly the same? You've actually just convinced me rent control might do a city good by pushing capital investors into more useful pursuits, rather than simply "investing in land" which effectively does nothing of value for people. I do think it's silly to treat the symptom without fixing the main problem which is zoning law and permit restrictions on bui…

That might work if you want to live in a tent in the forest, but if you want to live in a city with buildings and infrastructure, then you want investors in invest in land.
Post reply on HN