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Do Jails Kill People?

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51–60 of 77 posts

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#51
post #45

My experience with jail: I was having severe heart palpitations in jail and the guards would not give me my medicine. When I got irate they would threaten to throw me in the hole without food and water for a few days. I also have a spine disorder that brings me extreme discomfort and the cots were the same units they'd ordered in the sixties. No stuffing at all, and I would wake up slightly paralyzed waist up for a f…

I'm sorry that you experienced such an inhumane ordeal. Were you incarcerated at a publicly or privately operated facility?

Public facility ostensibly, but essentially privately owned because the mayor's son is the district prosecutor, the (at the time) county's only judge, mayor and sheriff are political best buds, and the mayor is the bail bondsman for the county.

To give you a better idea: Someone I know tried running against the district prosecutor last year, and ended up getting thrown in jail for made-up charges which magically appeared citing a rape of a woman 15 years ago. The district prosecutor was assigned to the case and this person has simply been fighting to have another prosecutor assigned to the case because obviously if the DA tries him he will put him away as long as he can as an example to others. These people get away with everything up to and including murder.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#52
The root of the problem is that we as a society can't agree on what the purpose of prison is. Is it punishment? Is it repaying a debt to society? Is it reform? Is it to prevent people from committing more crime? This is also the reason why the US justice doesn't make much sense either.

Because people have vastly different views on the matter, we are unable to construct a prison system (or justice system) that makes any sense.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found it hard to find out who was responsible for PLRA, but what I do know is that it seemed to enjoy wide congressional support, received little scrutiny, was signed into law by Bill Clinton, and Joe Biden was one of the only senators who raised concerns about it preventing meritorious lawsuits. [1] [1] https://ilr.law.uiowa.edu/print/volume-100-issue-2/please-pa...

It's definitely reaks of 90s Clinton triangulation.

It reeks more of Clintonian conservatism; while triangulation was a Clinton strategy, it gets overused to explain Clinton's policy actions recently, perhaps because people have bought in to decades of Republican propaganda labeling Clinton as some kind of Communist, forgetting that he was an active and vociferous conservative democrat, and before being President a leader of the center-right DLC, and that outside of healthcare and culture war issues his positions were a hairs breadth from Republican positions (at least the pre-1994 ones; his own conservatism contributed to a radical rightward shift of the Overton window, including a radical rightward move in the Republican Party.)

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#54
post #2

Incarceration has been a sore spot of the american justice system for a long time. Privatization should be illegal and the plea system needs reform. “Because jails are chaotic and concealed from outside view, we only become aware of them when very bad outcomes occur, such as deaths,”

Privatization isn't the issue. A lot of the abuses you see in private prisons, you see in public prisons. I recommend anyone read "Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration and How to Achieve Real Reform"[1] by John Pfaff, a professor at Fordham who focuses on these issues. It addresses a lot of misconceptions about the criminal justice system and suggests reforms. You can find a 1 hour talk by Pfaff that gives a good overview of the book[2].

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Locked-Causes-Incarceration-Achieve-R...

[2] https://cdn.cato.org/archive-2017/cbf-04-26-17.mp4

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#55

I've decided that American jails are job projects [2]. They make work for guards, sheriffs and lawyers, at the expense of trapping people in a system from which they can't escape. The passenger I bailed out of jail [0] was almost killed by jail policies. He was forced to submit to a daily injection of time-release insulin, on the basis of his high A1C levels at intake. This has the effect of suppressing his blood sug…

>This passenger had gotten a series of "driving without a license" tickets, and now owes $10,000+ in fines. Because of the outstanding balance, the state issues him an identification card that expires every 3 or 6 months. People who don't have balances with the state get identification cards without an expiration date.

the state behaves just like a petulant cruel child, so typical of GOP and their puritanical mentality.

If ID is required by state to access basic rights, then having such an ID is a right not a privilege. In this case, beside everything else, AZ by de-facto denying ID to those people effectively strips them of their right to vote for example.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that you experienced such an inhumane ordeal. Were you incarcerated at a publicly or privately operated facility?

Public facility ostensibly, but essentially privately owned because the mayor's son is the district prosecutor, the (at the time) county's only judge, mayor and sheriff are political best buds, and the mayor is the bail bondsman for the county. To give you a better idea: Someone I know tried running against the district prosecutor last year, and ended up getting thrown in jail for made-up charges which magically appe…

Sounds like a great story for investigative media. Are there none in the region?

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely reaks of 90s Clinton triangulation.

It reeks more of Clintonian conservatism; while triangulation was a Clinton strategy, it gets overused to explain Clinton's policy actions recently, perhaps because people have bought in to decades of Republican propaganda labeling Clinton as some kind of Communist, forgetting that he was an active and vociferous conservative democrat, and before being President a leader of the center-right DLC, and that outside of h…

Absolutely right. I should put "triangulation" in scare quotes because it's totally ineffective and dishonest as well.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#58

Has anyone watched the recent documentary 'The Work'? I think putting people in jail is possibly the worst crime of all. Let's get them in therapy instead. We can help to heal them by listening to their stories. The trailer for 'The Work' can be watched here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8OVXG2GhpQ

Good luck convincing anyone that listening to stories will drastically alter a person's neurology to the point of making them go from hyper-aggressive to docile. Until we improve our cognitive reforming abilities, violent criminals need to be segregated from the rest of the population. I do agree, though, that the vindictive aspect of "justice" is primative.

Genuine question: do you believe laziness exists?

“We Americans stubbornly resist the possibility that what we do is profoundly shaped by policies, norms, systems, and other structural realities. We prefer to believe that people who commit crimes are morally deficient, that the have-nots in our midst are lazy (or at least insufficiently resourceful), that overweight people simply lack the willpower to stop eating, and so on. If only those folks would just exercise a little personal responsibility, a bit more self-control!” — Alfie Kahn

I think it's presumptuous to say that all violence is the result of a person's neurology, and not someone being in a desperate position because a number of their human needs not being met. Do you ever get angry or regret things?

When you talk about 'cognitive reforming abilities’, to me it sounds as if you are saying that human beings are like machines to be tweaked, which is rather indicative of technocratic solutionism. Do you think you are connected to a compassionate, nonjudgmental view of humanity or life itself?

In my experience, a lot of other men I’ve had around me tend to shy away from sharing what is going on inside of them, not sharing and describing what they feel in their body and how this relates to their unmet needs.

"The reality is that men are hurting and that the whole culture responds to them by saying, 'Please do not tell us what you feel.' ... If we cannot heal what we cannot feel, by supporting patriarchal culture that socializes men to deny feelings, we doom them to live in states of emotional numbness. We construct a culture where male pain can have no voice, where male hurt cannot be named or healed." — bell hooks

When I first read this, it resonated with me a lot. Does it resonate with you?

I think American society has evolved into a culture that glorifies violence, turns young girls into sex objects, sends young men to their deaths to ‘defend America’, and indoctrinates it's citizens with bizarre nationalistic views and a sense superiority that to me is completely removed from a compassionate view of life.

I recently learned that that there is not just one type of abuse, ‘disempowering abuse’ - which is shaming, and making someone consider themselves ‘less than’ others, but two types. The second type of abuse, which I think American culture suffers from, is what Pia Mellody calls: ‘false empowerment’. It leads to codependent individuals, on both sides. Here is a description by psychologist Terrence Real, from his book ‘How Can I Get Through to You’:

“What Pia has called “disempowering abuse” is the one we can all readily identify. It is made up of transactions that shame a child, hurt him, physically or psychologically, make him feel unwanted, helpless, unworthy. What Pia has called “false empowerment,” by contrast, is comprised of transactions that pump up a child’s grandiosity, or at the least, that do not actively hold it in check. Pia’s genius was in understanding that falsely empowering a child is also a form of abuse.”

I think this artistic video, by Lubomir Arsov, sums up the Global North’s collective unconscious: https://vimeo.com/242569435

I think we need to move away from punitive justice as practiced in America today, and move to restorative justice. Re-humanizing and de-labeling people.

After doing deep soul searching, at this point I just can’t say that if I were in someone else’s shoes - that I would do ‘better’ than them. Listening to people’s stories and exploring their motivations with them has led me to some beautiful experiences and connections, including a more compassionate connection and relationship with myself.

To be honest, at the same time as I am getting very stirred up inside from the viewpoint you shared, I somehow don’t think the world could be any better than it is today. Tracing our collective behavior to the roots, I think a lot comes from our money system. Bernard Lietaer helped me see that money is a human invention.

Charles Eisenstein on Sacred Economics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEZkQv25uEs

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reeks more of Clintonian conservatism; while triangulation was a Clinton strategy, it gets overused to explain Clinton's policy actions recently, perhaps because people have bought in to decades of Republican propaganda labeling Clinton as some kind of Communist, forgetting that he was an active and vociferous conservative democrat, and before being President a leader of the center-right DLC, and that outside of h…

Absolutely right. I should put "triangulation" in scare quotes because it's totally ineffective and dishonest as well.

Triangulation is often (and was for Clinton) an effective near term political strategy (it's quite useful as an electoral strategy for a single election, in many cases), but it's a strategy which wins battles by setting your opponent up to win the long term policy war.

Re: Do Jails Kill People?

#60
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that you experienced such an inhumane ordeal. Were you incarcerated at a publicly or privately operated facility?

Public facility ostensibly, but essentially privately owned because the mayor's son is the district prosecutor, the (at the time) county's only judge, mayor and sheriff are political best buds, and the mayor is the bail bondsman for the county. To give you a better idea: Someone I know tried running against the district prosecutor last year, and ended up getting thrown in jail for made-up charges which magically appe…

Are they selling bulldozers and concrete near that area?
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