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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#51

Post by modzu »

danieljohnson wrote: post #45
ab71e5 wrote: post #34

I moved from the Netherlands to Canada and still bike to a lot of places. While I of course expected the lack of infrastructure, I did not fully expect the amount of hate I would be getting. People here see you as some idiot who is playing with his toy while `serious` people are driving. They yell at you to get on the sidewalk, get off the road, that you don`t pay `road tax` (wtf), some homophobic shit. Canadians are…

Canada is pretty big, what area/city?

have heard every one of those arguments, both in the city and in the countryside. here's another one: my neighbour complaining about my bike being locked to the outside of the house: "get a car like every other adult"

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#52

Post by neetodavid »

baud147258 wrote: post #28

Why the article doesn't mention of distracted and inattentive pedestrians? It might be possible that the sudden increase in deaths is due to the rise of handheld distractions. Also the same could be true of drivers and cyclist using their handheld.

"Adding to the dangers are distracted drivers and pedestrians and the introduction of electric scooters. Some observers also believe an epidemic of narcissism is causing more aggressive driving. "

This is linked in that passage: https://theconversation.com/the-value-of-unplugging-in-the-a...

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#53

Post by freehunter »

ab71e5 wrote: post #34

I moved from the Netherlands to Canada and still bike to a lot of places. While I of course expected the lack of infrastructure, I did not fully expect the amount of hate I would be getting. People here see you as some idiot who is playing with his toy while `serious` people are driving. They yell at you to get on the sidewalk, get off the road, that you don`t pay `road tax` (wtf), some homophobic shit. Canadians are…

I've seen that in cities in the Midwest USA too. But in my area (not in a city) I have the opposite problem... people on the road are too nice, to the point where it is dangerous. There is bike trail I like to ride on and it only crosses one major road, but it's two lanes in each direction with a left turn lane. And I've had people stop on that road trying to wave me through, even though I have a stop sign and they don't. I am absolutely not crossing in traffic just because one person stopped, and I'm just waiting for the day when someone does that and causes a major accident.

It's safe to say that people in North America just don't know how to react to bicycles all around.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#54

Post by everdev »

In the Bay Area it's popular for cyclists to bike on narrow, winding, steep roads with no shoulder like Sand Hill Rd. or Highway 9 in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

Regardless of how you feel about bikes the conditions are inherently unsafe for bikes and cars and there are multiple annual fatalities.

I can't think of another form of exercise where a participant puts themselves and non-participants in legal danger.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#55

Post by upofadown »

I have personally noticed some unintended consequences due to modern auto design. The more steeply sloped windshields for better aerodynamics mean that in most cases a pedestrian can no longer see where the driver is looking. All they see is a reflection of the bright sky. The greater tendency to have smoked windows to the sides and rear just makes things worse.

The flatter angle of the front A-pillars also increases the size of the blind spot[1]. A-pillars have to provide rollover protection these days and as a result have to be somewhat wider to produce the required strength.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_blind_spot#Effects_of_...

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#56

Post by lkbm »

techiferous wrote: post #19
joekrill wrote: post #8

Interestingly (and obviously anecdotal) I've found the opposite has been happening in Philadelphia. And the main driving (no pun intended) factor, I think, was the introduction of our bike share program (Indego). Drivers were so much more hostile to bicyclists before these were introduced. We now have more dedicated bike lanes, which helps immensely. We've introduced signs and indicators ("sharrows") that indicate to…

> Drivers were so much more hostile to bicyclists before these were introduced. I'm not sure that driver attitudes are the primary cause of cycling deaths. Lack of visibility might be one, though.

In some places it might be. In most, it's probably distraction -- phones, eating, etc. -- or alcohol, but if those are less common and hostility is high, the latter could probably overtake.

People will pass very fasts and very close when they're angry at the cyclist for being on the road and "in their way". I've actually had someone try to run me off the road before. (I've had plenty of people try to merge into where I was, but this was someone trying to do it because he wanted me on the sidewalk "where I belonged". We stopped and argued at a light right afterwards.)

If that behavior were common, cycling would be vastly more dangerous. Maybe in Philadelphia it was.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#57

Post by ab71e5 »

danieljohnson wrote: post #45
ab71e5 wrote: post #34

I moved from the Netherlands to Canada and still bike to a lot of places. While I of course expected the lack of infrastructure, I did not fully expect the amount of hate I would be getting. People here see you as some idiot who is playing with his toy while `serious` people are driving. They yell at you to get on the sidewalk, get off the road, that you don`t pay `road tax` (wtf), some homophobic shit. Canadians are…

Canada is pretty big, what area/city?

Toronto suburbs

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#58

Post by chasd00 »

baud147258 wrote: post #28

Why the article doesn't mention of distracted and inattentive pedestrians? It might be possible that the sudden increase in deaths is due to the rise of handheld distractions. Also the same could be true of drivers and cyclist using their handheld.

this shouldn't be downvoted. I've sat a green light while a pedestrian walked right out in front of me without even looking up from their phone. They only realized what they did in the middle of the road and then darted back.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#59

Post by maxsilver »

admiral_biatch wrote: post #39
maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

In my opinion isolating separate transportation modes is only good if it is complete isolation but that's never feasible in a city. Too expensive and space-inefficient to make every intersection collision-free for cars, bikes and pedestrians. If you separate cars, bikes and pedestrians most of the time but their paths cross at intersections then you have a problem because drivers might not expect a sudden bike lane o…

> but that's never feasible in a city.

That's kind of funny to hear, because I was going to use real-world Chicago and Seoul as practical examples of this already existing in cities today.

Chicago Loop has a dual-layer approach (where faster moving cars are on the ground floor, but a "second street level" is directly above them, for pedestrians + buses). It's not an exact match (cars can drive on both levels, those lanes should all exist on one level), but it's pretty close to this idea already in practice.

On the opposite side, Seoul has a "pedestrian highway" slung above 8ish lanes of car traffic below, which is a cheaper (although less effective) version of the same idea.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#60

Post by cleetus »

chasd00 wrote: post #21

heh a couple summer's ago in Dallas i got hit by a police officer while crossing the street. Ironically, while he was on his cell phone. I had to do the whole ninja-roll thing over the hood and on to the pavement. Came out of it with only a sore wrist and a funny story for the conference call i was late to. a buddy of mine grabbed a guy and pulled him out of the way of a city bus. The guy had the light to cross and t…

I moved from Dallas to Minneapolis and was certain I would feel safer walking and biking because of it's reputation as a bike friendly city. In Dallas, it seemed somewhat understandable to me for drivers not to except to see pedestrians and bikers because there just aren't that many of them - the city is so spread out. But the drivers in Minneapolis are straight up entitled, aggressive, and dangerous in high foot traffic areas. Right turn on red and and stop signs are treated as roll throughs, and only if there isn't oncoming traffic. I felt safer as a pedestrian living in NYC than I have in either Dallas or Minneapolis.
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