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Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#51

Post by arkades »

benbristow wrote: post #50
coldtea wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department How about both 1. and 2.? Google wants to spy (for ad context etc) with a mic that will be enabled in due time? And why move the Overton window to "it's ok to have hidden mics in a bloody thermostat, as long as they're not enabled"?

That's getting close to conspiracy territory

Yes. It’s crazy to think an IoT device would be constructed to aggressively spy on its owners for advertising purposes (https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/07/09/smart-tvs-are-sp...).

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#52

Post by mda »

coldtea wrote: post #43
strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

> - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department How about both 1. and 2.? Google wants to spy (for ad context etc) with a mic that will be enabled in due time? And why move the Overton window to "it's ok to have hidden mics in a bloody thermostat, as long as they're not enabled"?

Sure, if I was a conspiracy lunatic this would make a lot of sense.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#53

Post by bpye »

skookumchuck wrote: post #47
est31 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're one decent security flaw (in an IoT device no less) from anybody having a microphone in your house. Many people already have Android smartphones, so there is already a Google microphone in your house. The big difference is that you know that it has a microphone.

The smartphone requires a battery, which drains away noticeably if it is sending all your conversations. The Nest is connected to the house power, so it can stream audio non-stop.

Additionally a user is likely to pay a lot more attention to their phone than to their Nest devices. A compromised Nest device will likely stay compromised until Google find the exploit...

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#54

Post by [deleted] »

strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

[deleted]

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#55

Post by bpye »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #37
strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

If the mic is on the BOM it's not disabled. It's just not being currently used. Maybe.

Right. If it's ended up on a production board that means one of two things.

1. They intend to use the microphone in the future

2. They disabled the microphone after having the boards manafactured right before shipping - what changed?

If they knew they weren't going to use it, why didn't they leave the microphone unpopulated? It would save on their BOM cost too, there had to be a reason.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#56

Post by vermilingua »

benbristow wrote: post #50
coldtea wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department How about both 1. and 2.? Google wants to spy (for ad context etc) with a mic that will be enabled in due time? And why move the Overton window to "it's ok to have hidden mics in a bloody thermostat, as long as they're not enabled"?

That's getting close to conspiracy territory

I think Google is well past conspiracy territory. They are a company whose bottom line depends on collecting as much user data as possible; in an economy that compels them to improve their bottom line by any means available.

Is there really any doubt that google can and will spy on you if given the slightest opportunity?

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#57

Post by bpye »

chimen wrote: post #17
sametmax wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's sad is that those companies accept. I have been offeredd job interviews at google and facebook and politely refused. Yes, millions are a much bigger temptation, but you still have a choice. In the hand, either they decided those companies where matching their ethics, or they gave up on ethics for money. Given our entreprenarial culture, is that surprising ?

Often, the offer is much harder to pass. "We will buy you or we will build a better you and destroy your business" - it's not just a money offer to refuse when you think about it. Part of the decision process is also the feeling that a huge company wants to enter the market with the same product. Can you compete?

An example that went the other way? Snapchat. Facebook just made their own.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#58

Post by kmlx »

atoav wrote: post #28

What never ceases to amaze me, is the absolute inability of companies like google to understand what their actions look like for somebody who is concerned about privacy. Maybe they understand and do not care, because there are many vocal critics. But having a microphone in a product and not disclosing it? If not even google can keep track of what they should tell us, how on earth do they think they deserve trust?

who's "concerned about their privacy" and why?

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#59

Post by Yizahi »

strictnein wrote: post #10

Infosec dramas are getting more and more tiresome. Between this and the Singapore Airlines story, it just seems like people need to ratchet everything up to 11. You have two options, choose one: - 1. Google wants to spy on you with a hidden mic - 2. They had future plans for the mic, but it was disabled, so it wasn't mentioned by the marketing department For the Singapore Airlines story, you have two options, choose…

Metadata equals spying (= "future plans for the mic")

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/metadata_equa...

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#60

Post by kmlx »

vermilingua wrote: post #56
benbristow wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's getting close to conspiracy territory

I think Google is well past conspiracy territory. They are a company whose bottom line depends on collecting as much user data as possible; in an economy that compels them to improve their bottom line by any means available. Is there really any doubt that google can and will spy on you if given the slightest opportunity?

Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. I think most of it is paranoia.

I also think this kind of paranoia is detrimental to our evolution as a species.

We should be sharing more, not hiding in our caves.

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