Live data from Hacker News

Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

triplebyte.com

51–60 of 540 posts

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#51
too hard?! please... just becuse it may have been to hard for you dosen't mean all programers are idiots/... at least an example of what is considerd hard should'v been given....

you wanna know how to tell if a programer is good or bad in thir job... give them questions from the eular project...

and start from page 6 or so... from questions 200-300-to start with.. after he answerd it all correctly and... he should be able to solve at least 1 problem from page 13... only then hire the man....

just because you may be stupid/... find somthing too hard dosen't mean it is too hard! man...

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#52
Most programming interviews are a waste of time and energy for everyone involved and the results are, for the most part, a complete facade. Asking puzzle questions gives interviewers the feeling that they're really testing hard for top talent, when in reality they're just demonstrating their lack of interviewing skills.

I recently interviewed managers at two different technology companies, both nationally known, for a report I am working on. Most managers admitted their technical interviews were flawed, but didn't know any other way to assess skills. They also admitted that a significant number of people they recruit refuse to even take the technical challenge and end up working elsewhere.

In interviewing a couple dozen engineers, I found most just don't want to waste their evenings and weekends on a technical puzzle for a job, especially when there are a lot of companies out there who don't bother with them, so they end up searching for companies that don't waste their time with technical challenges.

Another funny thing I discovered during my research is that just under half of the employees at both companies I've interviewed so far were not able to successfully complete their own technical challenges.

Another problem with technical challenges is that often times the interviewer knows less about the topic than the interviewee. I recently went through the interview process with a local technology company who uses Elixir and Go (both of which I know). During the onsite interview, the interviewer kept saying things like, "Don't forget to..." or "You forgot..." I kept explaining that I didn't need to do as he was suggesting. In the end, my code worked, my tests worked, and I passed the interview. In spite of this, I was rejected because the interviewer, "Wasn't feeling it."

I still have a lot of research to do, but I haven't found anything, so far, that suggests that technical interviews predictably result in top-talent getting hired. It seems to be the same crapshoot interviewing people without using technical challenges is, because in the end, most people decide within the first couple of minutes if they like someone and hire based on that, regardless of the rest of the interview process.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#54

This is an interesting post given that up until recently TripleByte's facebook/Twitter ads were asking very nonrealworld programming questions: https://twitter.com/minimaxir/status/1054596563585052673 Now, the ads ask simpler things like floating point precision and function variable scoping ( https://www.facebook.com/triplebyte/ads/?ref=page_internal ); legit problems, but not sure if they are an indicator of how go…

How is that nonrealworld? Dealing with things like endianness is quite normal for a low level programmer.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#55
post #14

>how clean their code is, I got bit in the ass by this one as triplebyte itself. They asked me to make a tic tac toe game, and gave me iirc 30 minutes (less?) to do it. Except, it wasn't "build a tic tac to" game, first it was "draw a board to the console," "take user input from the console," etc a bunch of instructions in a convoluted path that perhaps another engineer would do when knowing from the outset that the…

You failed your Triplebyte interview because you neglected an extremely important aspect of the job: communication. You made assumptions about the ask which turned out to be grossly out of tune with those of the interviewer. In the real world, engineers are often left holding the bag when other participants of the process leave out important details. It’s our job to ask questions and establish the boundaries of each problem before diving into a solution.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#56

The less talked about absurdity is that successfully passing programming interviews is a skill itself. It's especially absurd because the time I spend developing that skill is less time spent developing skills and knowledge more directly relevant to my job. Yet, programming interview skill is more relevant to progressing my career. edit: now if you'll excuse me, I need to do some dynamic programming problems.

This is why this whole interview thing is so absurd. The amount of days lost by engineers to relearn obscure algorithms and training on leetcode while we could be coding for things that are actually useful.

obscure algorithms are useful. it isn't a perfect system but its better than what most people propose as alternatives, which is to just have an ad hoc conversation.

testing whether someone is willing to prepare for a thing is a relevant work skill test too.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#57

I think that asking a candidate to perform a code review can be an effective method of evaluating quite a few desirable qualities. Can they understand someone else's code? Can they engage in constructive critical discussion? Are they able to effectively refactor something to make it better? Can they spot mistakes and do they have an opinion about how to avoid such mistakes?

Yeah that's great but what if they can't reverse a binary tree?

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#58
The best interviews I've been a part of have been a short cultural style interview followed by a (roughly) 2 hour paired-programming session on a relatively simply to-do application.

1. The problem is pretty well understood (but does offer room for interpretation).

2. Provides time to cover all key aspects (Frontend, Backend, Database, Networking, Debugging, Testing, Caching, etc) in at least some capacity. In particular, it shows you what areas the developers focus on.

3. Provides a more relaxed/realist environment. It's also more accommodating to developers switching stacks - familiar with good programming patterns but not the specifics of stack (e.g. "Here's how I'd do [some specific task] in [other stack]. How do I do it here").

4. It's clearly a throw away task so there's no concern about "interview labor". It can also be pre-prepped so you don't have to worry about jumping too far in.

5. You can cut short with bad candidates and expand the problem for more complex candidates.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#60
post #4

Because they're designed that way. It all comes down to: * Rejecting far more candidates than you need to -- so you can feel like you're hiring "the top 1 percent" * Giving yourself the feeling that you have an objective hiring process (when really you don't) * Making your own team members feel like they're super brilliant and special when really they're not That's what the modern hiring process is designed to do. An…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN