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My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

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Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#51

Just the fact that you can't cast your own local content when the mothership is down makes me want to throw out all cast devices. Ignoring DNS servers seems like a very minor issue.

Have you verified you can't cast your own local content if 8.8.8.8 is down? I thought it did a fallback.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#52

I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff (and funnily enough, much more serious privacy issues related to Google are ignored/downvoted). Hardcoded DNS servers are common. Extremely common in a bunch of IOT devices, given how broken some ISPs are. This is a non-story and the only reason it's being upvoted is because Google is doing it, and they als…

"Broken" ISP are likely to intercept DNS requests, so really the only option against them is something like DNS over HTTPS.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google DNS came about because of a very real problem of shitty ISPs giving shitty DNS servers that gave fake results (especially in NXDomain cases) I can see why you would want to use a known-good dns provider in your product, however at the very least there should be an ability to turn off such behaviour.

It is not shitty ISPs giving fake results. It is me. My resolver does that and it is for a reason. Disrespecting what the local network tells you to use just leads to arms race.

That's the issue though---there was already an arms race (between users and ISPs), and it was making it hard to create reliable consumer electronics devices because DNS logic is complicated and the complexity adds cost (and more importantly, pushes configuration burden from the device onto the user).

It sucks that customization was damaged in the arms race, but that's the nature of measure-countermeasure in web technologies across the board. Every web technology is a three-edged sword: the spec, the intention behind the spec, and the real-world implementation of the spec.

DNS / DHCP implementation drifted from intention years ago.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#54
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff" Google's smart though. They know that rolling out unsavory ideas in small pieces keeps it under the radar. They didn't, for example, push the organic search results under the fold all at once. This could be innocuous, or part of some larger agenda.

I don't really see the point of changing the DNS settings to watch YouTube, either way Google will know what you're watching. I know the Chromecast can do other casting but I assume those services (Netflix, Hulu, etc) are using more than just DNS queries as well to see what you watch. And if you're casting local media then no DNS goes out at all.

Could be some other motivation, like making it not work in typical corporate environments, where arbitrary external DNS access isn't a given. Perhaps to upsell some other, more expensive device.

(Maybe not this, just an example to note that motivation can be hard to discern)

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#55
post #9
post #3

Shitty device then. Or is there a legitimate usecase for such behaviour?

> Or is there a legitimate usecase for such behaviour? Yes, to track you better.

Or to speed up the Internet experience.

https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/introducing-google-p...

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#56

I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff (and funnily enough, much more serious privacy issues related to Google are ignored/downvoted). Hardcoded DNS servers are common. Extremely common in a bunch of IOT devices, given how broken some ISPs are. This is a non-story and the only reason it's being upvoted is because Google is doing it, and they als…

> this is a $30 device to hook up TVs,

Nitpick, but more like $70; you may be confusing Chromecast Ultra with the base Chromecast.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#57

I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff (and funnily enough, much more serious privacy issues related to Google are ignored/downvoted). Hardcoded DNS servers are common. Extremely common in a bunch of IOT devices, given how broken some ISPs are. This is a non-story and the only reason it's being upvoted is because Google is doing it, and they als…

> You know what would be an actual story though? If Google used Google DNS to spy on people. this. I highly doubt Google is actually using DNS for tracking or connecting queries to someone's account, especially when they say they don't [1]. Many people say "use Cloudflare DNS if you're worried about privacy", but Google effectively makes the same claim as Cloudflare that they don't use DNS to track you. The only plus…

CloudFlare makes their money differently than Google though. Google wants figure out how to most efficiently put other people’s ads in front of me, and to sell my attention for the most value. Even if they have absolutely no ulterior motives (evil or otherwise), Google’s business is one such that they have every motive to abuse my privacy for their own gain.

CloudFlare doesn’t make their money off of brokering my attention, they have a decent track record of doing the ‘right’ things (or at least not the ‘wrong’ things), and they’ve made some decently pro-privacy statements in the past.

It seems that everyone wants to collect data on everything and figure out how to sell it off, so I’m not putting it out of the realm of possibility that CloudFlare could do shady stuff and abuse my privacy as well- but their general line of business doesn’t require it the way Google’s does.

All things otherwise equal, I’m gonna trust the company who’s business isn’t selling my profile a bit more for most things. I used to use Google DNS a lot, now I use CloudFlare’s. I trust them both more than Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon with respect to technical competency and security at the very least.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#58

This guy sure is angry that his consumer electronics device is architected to be maximally convenient to set-up and use for the common user. He may want to consider an alternative product. Or use his 1337 hacker skills to modify his already-customized local routing configuration to just do the thing this consumer electronics device is assuming is standard (i.e. accessing services by IP on the Internet) by telling his…

Not sure what you meant by "1337 hacker skills" (sounds sarcastic to me) but the guy in question helped create the Domain Name System!

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#59

I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff (and funnily enough, much more serious privacy issues related to Google are ignored/downvoted). Hardcoded DNS servers are common. Extremely common in a bunch of IOT devices, given how broken some ISPs are. This is a non-story and the only reason it's being upvoted is because Google is doing it, and they als…

This isn't a case of an IOT device though. My Chromecast went through massive amount of trouble to use Google's DNS servers, to serve ads behind my pi-hole. It would respect all of my DHCP parameters, but silently ignore DNS settings. It was clearly intentional to serve ads. I had to set up a firewall to force it to use my DNS server. And eventually even that stopped working with an update (which themselves are reall…

How is "hardcoding 8.8.8.8" a "massive amount of trouble?"
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