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Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

bbc.com

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Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#51

Post by rohan1024 »

tivert wrote: post #5

> The test is also expected to involve ISPs demonstrating that they can direct data to government-controlled routing points. These will filter traffic so that data sent between Russians reaches its destination, but any destined for foreign computers is discarded. > Eventually the Russian government wants all domestic traffic to pass through these routing points. This is believed to be part of an effort to set up a ma…

Until we have skynet online.

edit: I was talking about starlink. Assumed that Elon Musk named it skynet

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#52

Post by tw04 »

throwaway415415 wrote: post #43
tivert wrote: post #5

> The test is also expected to involve ISPs demonstrating that they can direct data to government-controlled routing points. These will filter traffic so that data sent between Russians reaches its destination, but any destined for foreign computers is discarded. > Eventually the Russian government wants all domestic traffic to pass through these routing points. This is believed to be part of an effort to set up a ma…

There is no way they can afford to fragment the internet. They need open source libraries, they need access to information, they need access to education, etc. If they do that they will gp backward economically.

The government does, sure. And just like China, the appropriate government employees will be given access. But the public? The technical ones will find ways around it and the general populace will just go on without.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#53

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #11

They are testing this because they want the power to release an unspeakable virus / botnet which can destroy the whole internet / take down major infrastructure. Doing so would of course require disconnecting from the internet first.

1) Don't post conspiracy theories with nothing to back it up like its real information.

2) You don't need a virus to take down the internet. A fairly limited missile strike could take out enough of the backbone to take almost everything down.

3) This is a real danger all first world countries are aware of and prepare for or under-prepare for.

4) If World War 3 starts when China takes down Netflix.... our generation will have been a complete failure.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#54

Post by tivert »

freewizard wrote: post #26

Surprising it's Russia, not China, doing this first, as senior ex-Googlers like Eric Schmidt and Kaifu Lee brought up this "two internet" thing [1] [2] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/04/the-splinternet-an-internet-...

> Surprising it's Russia, not China, doing this first

China already did do this first. All their internet traffic already passes through government controlled choke points, and their citizens primarily use domestic Chinese-only systems, at least partially because foreign competitors are blocked. The things Russia is testing here are some basic capabilities of a great-firewall type system.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#55

Post by pjc50 »

api wrote: post #49
staplers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. I'm starting to see a lot of outrageous opinions like this on 'normal' forums like Reddit and HN with people defending this type of authoritarianism. I see the internet trending so extreme to the point it's useless for me. Not sure if others feel the same. Makes me sad to remember the hope I used to feel about its possibilities.

For the past 10-15 years there has been a broad based trend toward authoritarianism. I see it on both the left and the right. Most libertarians seem to have become either fascists or authoritarian socialists. What you see in forums reflects this larger trend. It also seems to be a global trend that spans cultures, nations, religions, etc. I am not sure exactly why this is happening, but my guess would be a lot of ext…

My guess would be that people have paid for it to happen through some very effective propaganda.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#56

Post by mg794613 »

Shivetya wrote: post #8
tivert wrote: post #5

> The test is also expected to involve ISPs demonstrating that they can direct data to government-controlled routing points. These will filter traffic so that data sent between Russians reaches its destination, but any destined for foreign computers is discarded. > Eventually the Russian government wants all domestic traffic to pass through these routing points. This is believed to be part of an effort to set up a ma…

don't worry, the US political system is doing similar but under the guise of "fake news" and "campaign finance reform". what doesn't work one way can simply be done another when you convince enough people to be afraid

Why is this person down voted so harshly? It's on topic. It's relevant and to my opinion even correct in mentioning this. Russia does it without shame in the open whereas the western (our) countries achieve this by scaring the people enough "they want it themselves". What's so wrong about that?

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#57

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #32
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if say, all major news websites do, then you're probably fucked Why? What absolutely vital information did the general populace just lose access to that's not the equivalent to "well my router died"?

"War was declared at..."

And what about that news requires internet level transmission? We have SMS, Radio, & TV still. I'll bet the next morning newspaper would do it too.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#58

Post by gammateam »

staplers wrote: post #34
abledon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people go to war to gain control over something. If you can do so by censoring ideas, great! That is a lot cheaper than actual war.

.. I'm starting to see a lot of outrageous opinions like this on 'normal' forums like Reddit and HN with people defending this type of authoritarianism. I see the internet trending so extreme to the point it's useless for me. Not sure if others feel the same. Makes me sad to remember the hope I used to feel about its possibilities.

Because people see it works in their own private communities.

Just from acknowledging its effectiveness doesn't mean people are defending it, just recognizing that it is a really effective practice.

I think its outrageous that someone's lack of vilification is seen as tacit consent of the behavior.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#59

Post by tivert »

tw04 wrote: post #52
throwaway415415 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way they can afford to fragment the internet. They need open source libraries, they need access to information, they need access to education, etc. If they do that they will gp backward economically.

The government does, sure. And just like China, the appropriate government employees will be given access. But the public? The technical ones will find ways around it and the general populace will just go on without.

> The technical ones will find ways around it

And will be monitored. I've read speculation that some of the popular VPNs that still function reliably in China are likely to be government-controlled.

From an authoritarian's controlling standpoint, it makes sense to deliberately provide some "outlets" to trap the unsophisticated people who want to escape your control. Out of the pan an into the fire, so to speak.

Re: Russia considers 'unplugging' from internet

#60

Post by tialaramex »

mikeash wrote: post #35
tivert wrote: post #5

> The test is also expected to involve ISPs demonstrating that they can direct data to government-controlled routing points. These will filter traffic so that data sent between Russians reaches its destination, but any destined for foreign computers is discarded. > Eventually the Russian government wants all domestic traffic to pass through these routing points. This is believed to be part of an effort to set up a ma…

In retrospect, the old idea that the internet would be above national borders was hilariously naive. It may be a global network, but there’s nothing that says each country can’t exert a lot of control over their little piece of it.

The Network, in all its incarnations, is about communicating. When you suppose that you'll gain some small advantage by refusing to communicate, everybody else keeps their advantage and you lose yours. You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. Sometimes it takes a war to learn this lesson temporarily.

The Treaty of Bern is my go-to example. See, after mail ("snail" mail, not email) had been invented countries thought like you did, we must exert our control over this for our own good. So to get a letter from Scotland to Switzerland you'd need to relay it in steps, to enter each country it would need to conform to the laws of that country.

So you'd write a Swiss letter, conforming to Swiss rules with Swiss stamps, you'd place that inside a French letter, with French stamps conveying an instruction to relay it to the Swiss border, and then place that inside a British letter with local postage affixed which asked that it be relayed to France.

This would take considerable time, and failed if the route unexpectedly took your letter to the wrong country. It was a monumental pain in the arse, and for what?

So, the Treaty says No, don't do any of that. Everybody who signs the treaty gets to send and receive letters, it traverses borders, and the costs will all come out in the wash anyway the sending country chooses the pricing and you use their stamps wherever the letter is going. Everybody signed.

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