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If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

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Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#51

Post by tracker1 »

zbruhnke wrote: post #42
kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

Man it would be pretty amazing to be able to submit a Pull Request to the IRS. Matt Cutts if you're reading this please help! On another note, I'm not sure I agree on the electrical grid or traffic controls being open sourced ... could imagine some nefarious things happening as a result of that

Agreed, safety and essential infrastructure should probably not be open source. That said, the main points of infrastructure access and configuration are probably larger issues at hand over the actual systems source itself.

As to TFA, I have mixed feelings. I'm actually more concerned about research and related patents and data surrounding publicly funded study. I do feel that Open-Source should be given some level of preference, but not that all publicly funded software should be open source itself. It's a blurry line imho.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#53

Post by Consultant32452 »

ianwalter wrote: post #37
AlexandrB wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Yes. Open source, but secret/classified (as necessary, IRS software should be open-source, period). This way the software will be a useful learning/historical resource when it's declassified in the future.

Yes, open source IRS software. Tax breaks for bug fixes!

What do I get for sending in a malformed e-file that breaks the mainframe? There's some REALLY old code in the IRS processing systems and it would surprise me if any of it stood up to modern security designs. Also, you don't want to reveal how you determine who to audit.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#54

Post by Pfhreak »

rb808 wrote: post #13

The other point that there are millions of boring crud apps written out there in govt/contractor land. We dont need to see these as open source, its not as if there are lots of devs that love fixing crappy crud apps in their spare time.

Sure there are. Plenty of folks are looking for easy fixes to make to software, or are trying to learn to code. When I was in college, I looked for little projects like this all the time that had approachable, easy to grok bugs.

I love being a gardener, cleaning up cruft, tackling todos, working through various bug lists, and generally tidying up a codebase.

Simple CRUD apps are full of this stuff. And I'm sure I'm not alone in looking for easy ways to participate and feel a little more connected.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#55

Post by tracker1 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #47
ecshafer wrote: post #5

I am an open source advocate, but I don't really agree here. Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? Here are some cases where closed source software, with some security by obscurity could be helpful. Another example would be some software around designing nuclear systems. But as an example maybe a software funded by the national weather service to run simulations, that aught to be open source (per…

> Should the IRS, NSA, CIA, and FBI code all be open source? No, works made by or under hire for the federal government should be public domain, from a copyright standpoint, not exclusively owned but licensed under an open source license. But on the other hand, I think your real question has nothing to do with ownership or licensing, but whether or not they should be publicly disclosed. In many cases the answer is “n…

And private software that only needs a 3-5% modification for government usage? Should that be required to open-source the entire software? Should the government have to pay tens of millions and years of waiting to re-create said software?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#56

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

zbruhnke wrote: post #42
kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

Man it would be pretty amazing to be able to submit a Pull Request to the IRS. Matt Cutts if you're reading this please help! On another note, I'm not sure I agree on the electrical grid or traffic controls being open sourced ... could imagine some nefarious things happening as a result of that

By hiding the code, it makes security through obscurity far more possible. If you force the code to be public, very poor security will be discovered far faster and be more of an issue to the public.

While this will also make abusing security flaws easier, I think there is also a real benefit to forcing it to be public that could potentially outweigh the risks of doing such.

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#57

Post by container »

zbruhnke wrote: post #42
kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

Man it would be pretty amazing to be able to submit a Pull Request to the IRS. Matt Cutts if you're reading this please help! On another note, I'm not sure I agree on the electrical grid or traffic controls being open sourced ... could imagine some nefarious things happening as a result of that

Could you be more specific about what you can imagine? People looking at the code and finding exploits that way?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#58

Post by jamieweb »

The NHS (National Health Service) in the UK open-sourced their website frontend library[1] to allow all of the different hospitals, doctors practises and clinics to create their websites in-line with a centralised brand/accessibility standard.

[1] https://github.com/nhsuk/nhsuk-frontend

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#59

Post by AdrianB1 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Most posts on this thread are focusing on exceptional cases where there are obvious reasons not to open the source, such as defense, but huge amounts of publicly-funded code is locked up for no reason whatsoever. Let's discuss some use cases that make more sense: 1. healthcare.gov 2. Stoplights/traffic control cameras. 3. Voting machines. 4. Electrical grid. 5. IRS.

There is more than one country in the world. Let's say country A is paying for some software and open source it, the rest of the world can get it. That may be fair if everyone is doing the same and contributing fairly (hard to assess that), but if countries A,B,C are the only ones contributing (paying) and everyone else just use, then it is not fair or sensible.

More than that, there is no "public paid", just "tax paid". That makes the tax payers entitled to some of that code, not someone else. With taxes paid on so many layers (federation, state, county, city) the ownership and entitlement is also layered: if a small town pays for some software, should the entire country get it? Why?

Re: If Software Is Funded from a Public Source, Its Code Should Be Open Source

#60

Post by dragonwriter »

mulmen wrote: post #15
tombert wrote: post #10

It would certainly be interesting to make a pull request for something like Healthcare.gov or something. I wonder if it's measurable how much tax money we could save (if any) if we allowed the public to audit and improve our code.

Providing the source does not mean giving the public commit access.

Having government acquired code be open source licensed from the vendor to the government doesn't even mean the government publicly discloses the code.

It does mean the government is free to do so, or to hire another vendor to work on it without restriction.

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