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Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#51

Post by jdeibele »

pjc50 wrote: post #3

The combination of free movement of goods and extremely restricted rights and movement of people is going to put a lot of tension on that project, I'm sure. Or maybe not; after all, it works for Dubai. Then there's the technical problem of rail trans-shipment across different gauges. I wonder at what point it makes economic sense to rebuild several thousand miles of trans-Siberian railway.

I believe that Russia/Soviet Union considered that a feature, not a bug. I wonder if they would consider making it faster for TVs to get to Amsterdam at the cost of making it easier for tanks to get to Moscow.

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/23616/what-did-g...

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#52

Post by mc32 »

magduf wrote: post #49
mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it’s not so much the side we “picked” but the team that was given to us. Just as the Soviets often times had no choice but to work with truly bad people.

It seems like, in that case, you should just opt out. We didn't have to get involved in that war.

Hard to say, but given the realpolitik of the time, there doesn’t seem to have been much choice. The world was hostage to an indeological foe which took no prisoners and was looking to aggressively take over control of the world. That was their stated objective.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#53

Post by Retric »

mc32 wrote: post #52
magduf wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like, in that case, you should just opt out. We didn't have to get involved in that war.

Hard to say, but given the realpolitik of the time, there doesn’t seem to have been much choice. The world was hostage to an indeological foe which took no prisoners and was looking to aggressively take over control of the world. That was their stated objective.

That’s mostly surface talk. They invaded fewer countries than the US has, sticking mostly to supporting rebellion.

The US and Europe squashed home grown communism mostly through things like social security, unemployment insurance, and a helping of good old propaganda. Yet, we where suckered into fighting ideology on foreign soil with military force.

I don’t think it was obvious at the time, but going forward we need to learn from these mistakes.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#54

Post by yourbandsucks »

forkLding wrote: post #27
ajmurmann wrote: post #15

This reminds me of Zbigniew Brzezinski's The Grant Chessboard. It describes how the US secured its empire. China is not only building for economic growth but also building up valuable relationships and influence. Also keep in mind that one of Rome's greatest military innovations might have been its roads. Meanwhile the US is seems to be played by everyone from the outside and tearing itself apart from the inside. It…

The global hegemony is still being maintained, there still is 800 US military bases around the world despite those in Afghanistan and several in the Middle East being shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/us-military-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_oversea...

Could've said the same thing about the British Empire in 1946.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#55

Post by ssnistfajen »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #19

Unlike so much of the ugly narrative, even the ugly bits and pieces of this project (i.e. buying up ports, putting countries into debt traps etc.) - this one is different because there's a real, underlying material reality here. It's rational economic impetus, and probably a 'good idea' for the Chinese. Frankly, it may be good for many more than the Chinese. a) Other nations will be connected b) It can be 'two way' a…

Belt-and-Road itself is a reasonable plan, however the Chinese gov's political system determined that all of its projects are politically charged in one way or another. This is why many countries involved in the initiative are now trying to push back.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#56

Post by jhpriestley »

porpoisely wrote: post #20

This article exemplifies everything wrong with the nytimes and journalism today. 1. It's asking me a question. Don't ask me a question. 2. It doesn't add anything new or informative. Pretty much a rehash of everything that's been stated repeatedly for the past 8 years. 3. Boring standard propaganda. It's interesting how the BRI is covered by pro-china, anti-china and "neutral" ( if possible ) propaganda organizations…

hmm there were some new pieces of information to me, I guess I'm not spending enough time in game chats talking with rural kazakhs.

Interesting theory that only people of a certain race should cover that race. I guess this has been wrong with journalism for many centuries. I wouldn't even have realized that an Indonesian covering Brexit would be wrong, I'd be more interested in their relevant experience, knowledge, and sources to be honest.

It's a good point that this material has been covered before. Shame to see more than one article ever on a topic.

Also a great point that China's naval ambitions are also a story worth covering. I agree that it is journalistical malpractice to cover the massive continent spanning belt and road initiative at all when naval power is more important according to your extensive analysis.

Rhetorical questions are definitely just always wrong, thanks for pointing that out and then using 5 of them yourself.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#57

Post by bassman9000 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #15

This reminds me of Zbigniew Brzezinski's The Grant Chessboard. It describes how the US secured its empire. China is not only building for economic growth but also building up valuable relationships and influence. Also keep in mind that one of Rome's greatest military innovations might have been its roads. Meanwhile the US is seems to be played by everyone from the outside and tearing itself apart from the inside. It…

US economic hegemony will last as long as they retain the strongest Navy, by a huge margin, and world commerce veins remain to be the oceans and seas.

Which, unless blimps take over soon, will be until the advent of the space elevator.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#58

Post by NicoJuicy »

ajmurmann wrote: post #15

This reminds me of Zbigniew Brzezinski's The Grant Chessboard. It describes how the US secured its empire. China is not only building for economic growth but also building up valuable relationships and influence. Also keep in mind that one of Rome's greatest military innovations might have been its roads. Meanwhile the US is seems to be played by everyone from the outside and tearing itself apart from the inside. It…

Rome doesn't exist anymore. They got attacked on all fronts.

What China is doing is modern colonization through loans and I can only see it backfire.

It's a great scheme though, but at least Rome owned the places where it builded roads.

Edit: downvotes, please comment why. I'll rather discuss :)

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#59

Post by gamblor956 »

porpoisely wrote: post #20

This article exemplifies everything wrong with the nytimes and journalism today. 1. It's asking me a question. Don't ask me a question. 2. It doesn't add anything new or informative. Pretty much a rehash of everything that's been stated repeatedly for the past 8 years. 3. Boring standard propaganda. It's interesting how the BRI is covered by pro-china, anti-china and "neutral" ( if possible ) propaganda organizations…

The NY Times Magazine does not publish news articles. It publishes long-form works that are intended to educate readers about a topic. These works are not intended to be exhaustive, or neutral. They are intended to be engaging.

As all of your critiques are premised on a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the work at issue, I would respectfully suggest that you reassess your critique in light of this (new?) information.

Re: Can China Turn the Middle of Nowhere into the Center of the World Economy?

#60

Post by mc32 »

Retric wrote: post #53
mc32 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say, but given the realpolitik of the time, there doesn’t seem to have been much choice. The world was hostage to an indeological foe which took no prisoners and was looking to aggressively take over control of the world. That was their stated objective.

That’s mostly surface talk. They invaded fewer countries than the US has, sticking mostly to supporting rebellion. The US and Europe squashed home grown communism mostly through things like social security, unemployment insurance, and a helping of good old propaganda. Yet, we where suckered into fighting ideology on foreign soil with military force. I don’t think it was obvious at the time, but going forward we need…

I think you’re missing some history there.
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