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Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

watchesbysjx.com

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Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#51

Post by ryanlol »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #50
sho wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Counterfeiting costs the watchmaking industry billions each year." I take this with the same giant heaping of salt that I'd take with claims that the record industry loses billions per year because of mp3s, or movie companies because of bittorrent. They were never going to see those sales. The market size at price $0 is much, much larger than that at anything higher. Wishful thinking at its purest. I second, with…

I'm not outsourcing morality to the law at all. It's not breaking the law that makes it immoral, it's supporting organized crime that is immoral. That is just one reason why wearing fake watches is immoral. Even if it was legal to violate trademarks and commit fraud, you'd be paying people who are sneaky, lying sons of bitches.

What is organized crime? A group of people breaking the law in an organized manner?

Seems like the immorality of supporting organized crime would depend entirely on the nature of the crime being committed.

>commit fraud

Who is being defrauded?

>lying sons of bitches

Who is being lied to?

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#52

Post by sho »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #50
sho wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Counterfeiting costs the watchmaking industry billions each year." I take this with the same giant heaping of salt that I'd take with claims that the record industry loses billions per year because of mp3s, or movie companies because of bittorrent. They were never going to see those sales. The market size at price $0 is much, much larger than that at anything higher. Wishful thinking at its purest. I second, with…

I'm not outsourcing morality to the law at all. It's not breaking the law that makes it immoral, it's supporting organized crime that is immoral. That is just one reason why wearing fake watches is immoral. Even if it was legal to violate trademarks and commit fraud, you'd be paying people who are sneaky, lying sons of bitches.

Oh come on. The mob doesn't bother with fake Swatches. What ridiculous hyperbole. Next you'll be suggesting buying a fake watch is supporting terrorism!

I would suggest that anyone buying a $50 "rolex" is not, in fact, being defrauded, and if they are - well, they kind of deserve it.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#53

Post by stevekemp »

AtomicOrbital wrote: post #7

In traditional Japan the custom was each day had 12 hours of daylight and 12 of night time so to accommodate this the length of hours shifted day by day ... Masahiro was inspired by an ancient clock which implemented this idea such that he decided to craft by hand a watch to perform this as well ... incredible master and some impressive video documentary taboot

That sounds similar to the Ethiopean time-system:

* https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-01-30/if-you-have-meeting-e...

"Because Ethiopia is close to the Equator, daylight is pretty consistent throughout the year. So many Ethiopians use a 12-hour clock, with one cycle of 1 to 12 — from dawn to dusk — and the other cycle from dusk to dawn. "

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#54

Post by SamReidHughes »

sho wrote: post #52
SamReidHughes wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not outsourcing morality to the law at all. It's not breaking the law that makes it immoral, it's supporting organized crime that is immoral. That is just one reason why wearing fake watches is immoral. Even if it was legal to violate trademarks and commit fraud, you'd be paying people who are sneaky, lying sons of bitches.

Oh come on. The mob doesn't bother with fake Swatches. What ridiculous hyperbole. Next you'll be suggesting buying a fake watch is supporting terrorism! I would suggest that anyone buying a $50 "rolex" is not, in fact, being defrauded, and if they are - well, they kind of deserve it.

Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise. People are making $10000 fake Rolexes, not just $50 ones.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#55

Post by SamReidHughes »

ryanlol wrote: post #34
paradoxparalax wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One someones buy a fake watch, he is not buying the real one, so is there a win-win to everybody here? who is the owner of the design? man...if you were an inventor , and spend time inventing something nice, them you don't make money out of it, would you like that?

>One someones buy a fake watch, he is not buying the real one, so is there a win-win to everybody here? I would think that this is extremely uncommon. I think the following scenario is more likely: "X buys fake watch, X likes fake watch, X buys the real watch" >who is the owner of the design? The whole fake/not-fake thing usually has very little to do with the actual design of the watch, but the branding.

You're wrong, they infiltrate the supply chain, and catch unsuspecting consumers trying to buy the real thing. There are fakes all over chrono24, fake SARB017's recently found on Amazon, and there are a ton of fake Casio F-91W's.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#56

Post by sho »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #54
sho wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. The mob doesn't bother with fake Swatches. What ridiculous hyperbole. Next you'll be suggesting buying a fake watch is supporting terrorism! I would suggest that anyone buying a $50 "rolex" is not, in fact, being defrauded, and if they are - well, they kind of deserve it.

Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise. People are making $10000 fake Rolexes, not just $50 ones.

> Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise

Then you need to stop using the term "organized crime" because it has a pretty specific meaning. If it's "any criminal enterprise" then we just call that "crime" - and once again, you are referring to the law to define morality.

> People are making $10000 fake Rolexes

What. Not they are not. Your outlandish claims need evidence. Show many any example of someone who paid $10k for a fake Rolex.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#57

Post by dragonwriter »

sho wrote: post #56
SamReidHughes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise. People are making $10000 fake Rolexes, not just $50 ones.

> Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise Then you need to stop using the term "organized crime" because it has a pretty specific meaning. If it's "any criminal enterprise" then we just call that "crime" - and once again, you are referring to the law to define morality. > People are making $10000 fake Rolexes What. Not they are not. Your outlandish claims need evidence. Show many any example of…

> Then you need to stop using the term "organized crime" because it has a pretty specific meaning.

That meaning is a criminal enterprise. The mob is organized crime. Drug cartels are organized crime. Any organization against which RICO might be used is organized crime.

> If it's "any criminal enterprise" then we just call that "crime".

No, just “crime” doesn't require an enterprise. A criminal enterprise is organized crime.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#58

Post by ryanlol »

sho wrote: post #56
SamReidHughes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise. People are making $10000 fake Rolexes, not just $50 ones.

> Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise Then you need to stop using the term "organized crime" because it has a pretty specific meaning. If it's "any criminal enterprise" then we just call that "crime" - and once again, you are referring to the law to define morality. > People are making $10000 fake Rolexes What. Not they are not. Your outlandish claims need evidence. Show many any example of…

>What. Not they are not. Your outlandish claims need evidence. Show many any example of someone who paid $10k for a fake Rolex.

$10k seems about right for a fancy solid gold frankenwatch. These pop up for sale on forums sometimes, but they tend to be built by watchsmiths as a hobby and have almost nothing to do with the replica industry being discussed here.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#59

Post by SamReidHughes »

sho wrote: post #56
SamReidHughes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise. People are making $10000 fake Rolexes, not just $50 ones.

> Organized crime isn't "the mob." It's any criminal enterprise Then you need to stop using the term "organized crime" because it has a pretty specific meaning. If it's "any criminal enterprise" then we just call that "crime" - and once again, you are referring to the law to define morality. > People are making $10000 fake Rolexes What. Not they are not. Your outlandish claims need evidence. Show many any example of…

I've personally helped save people from buying $6000 fake Rolexes.

The fact that people send their fakes to Rolex to get serviced (which then get confiscated) is proof that they don't know they bought a fake.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker (2017)

#60

Post by Tepix »

vernie wrote: post #35
_skel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically there has never been a better time to buy an affordable mechanical watch than now. Quartz won because the mechanical watches that most people could afford in the 1970s were very inaccurate. A cheap quartz watch was more accurate than any mechanical watch and anybody could afford one by the late 1970s -- although they were very expensive at first. Affordable mechanical watches on the market today are much m…

They're still nowhere near as accurate as quartz, even on the high end, and accuracy also varies depending on the orientation of the watch.

I like Seiko's spring drive. It's an ingenious mix of mechanical and electric drive and it's quite accurate. My favourite part is the continuous motion of the seconds hand.

They're not very cheap, unfortunately.

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