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Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

citylab.com

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Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#51

Post by so33 »

goldcd wrote: post #16
pulisse wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Uber nor Lyft is currently profitable. They can't truly be said to be winning a market competition until they're not effectively running on subsidization. Additionally, until more cities implement congestion pricing, they benefit from a negative externality not being priced in.

Neither are the nationalized public transport systems they're competing against.

It's important to note that public transport systems are often forced to run unprofitable routes. Late night routes and paratransit are inherently unprofitable but improve accessibility. Of course, there are more unsavory reasons, usually political (for instance, the "Downtown Express" bus routes in Toronto were created to fulfill a political promise, and are vastly unprofitable as a result).

Ride-hailing services don't have this particular problem. They only need to serve based on rider demand. Yet at this moment they do rely on subsidies by VC money.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#54

Post by jkravitz61 »

ummonk wrote: post #40
capkutay wrote: post #21

Sorry but this is bullshit. As others have mentioned, public transit beats uber/lyft when its actually the better, faster service (e.g. London, Tokyo). But when public transit is poorly planned, slow, dirty, crime-ridden like it often is in the US, uber/lyft wins every time. Even when cities like San Francisco choose to spend billions on improving public transit, they mess it up every single time. There's a long list…

Yup. E.g. in Manhattan you'd be crazy to not use the subway. It's just faster than everything else, and extremely liberating. In contrast, in SF, if you want to get to your destination in any reasonable amount of time and don't your start and destination are not near the BART line, you need to use car / Uber / Lyft. Or even a scooter or Go bike is faster than public transit. SF needs to significantly invest in transi…

Seattle has been doing this recently. I'm not sure if they have released any studies yet, but my observation has been a noticeable improvement.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#55

Post by prolikewhoa »

jkravitz61 wrote: post #54
ummonk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. E.g. in Manhattan you'd be crazy to not use the subway. It's just faster than everything else, and extremely liberating. In contrast, in SF, if you want to get to your destination in any reasonable amount of time and don't your start and destination are not near the BART line, you need to use car / Uber / Lyft. Or even a scooter or Go bike is faster than public transit. SF needs to significantly invest in transi…

Seattle has been doing this recently. I'm not sure if they have released any studies yet, but my observation has been a noticeable improvement.

I've noticed no improvement, especially now with the viaduct closed which appears to be a permanent decline for people coming in from the southwest and west Seattle.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#56

Post by prolikewhoa »

mattnewton wrote: post #14
vkou wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the wealthy[1] can opt out of having to use public services, those public services tend to be crap. When the wealthy are forced to use public services, all of a sudden, they become interested and politically engaged in improving them. Uber doesn't drive improvements in transit in this sense - it starves it of political capital. The best transit services are ones which are used by a wide swathe of the public. [1]…

Not sure about the ranges on that wealthy comparison- if I wanted to commute to work by bus, it would cost >$6 in bus faires a day in the Bay Area. Splitting a Lyft line in San Francisco often results in math where we actually save money while using a more convenient service. It’s just hard to choose public transit around here when it is unreliable, barely cost competitive and slower.

Costs $24/day including tip for me to go 1/2 mile with Lyft 10 miles outside of Seattle during non surge pricing.

Costs me $0/day to take the bus or light rail, subsidized by my workplace. $3-$4 if your workplace doesn't subsidize and you get a regional pass.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#57

Post by aabeshou »

a lot of people taking the low hanging free-market attitude: if public trans was better, then uber/lyft wouldn't win. don't blame uber/lyft for filling a need. now I agree it doesnt make sense to hold uber/lyft responsible for this, because they're just a business. but I do agree it shows something wrong with society.

what people in this thread seem to be forgetting is that a lot of people don't actually have money to choose the service according to which is better - they take what they can afford, which is public trans. when rich people don't need to take the same forms of transit, then theres less pressure by the powerful people in society to create change, to improve the system. in the long run, we would all benefit directly, and indirectly (the positive effects it has on society), from a robust, affordable, pleasant, clean, etc public transit system. but because of this stratification, which uber/lyft contribute to (but of course cant be held entirely responsible for), it never gathers the clout and momentum to actually happen.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#58

Post by malandrew »

cozzyd wrote: post #45

Uber and Lyft increase downtown congestion (like sometimes up to one third of cars I see are Uber/Lyft in downtown Chicago) and routinely block bus stops and in bus lanes. This further slows down buses even more and screws up schedules. I wish bus drivers could automatically ticket the drivers. I have a CTA pass so I almost never use Uber/Lyft because it's so much more expensive.

TNCs are not the only ones contributing to congestion. Private cars do as well. We should address all road users and not just cherry-pick one scapegoat when everyone sitting in traffic is traffic. Congestion pricing is the solution here.

Re: Another Study Blames Uber and Lyft for Public Transit’s Decline

#59

Post by Tiktaalik »

capkutay wrote: post #21

Sorry but this is bullshit. As others have mentioned, public transit beats uber/lyft when its actually the better, faster service (e.g. London, Tokyo). But when public transit is poorly planned, slow, dirty, crime-ridden like it often is in the US, uber/lyft wins every time. Even when cities like San Francisco choose to spend billions on improving public transit, they mess it up every single time. There's a long list…

Public transit fails when it's poorly funded. The existence of Uber/Lyft provides an excuse to transit skeptic politicians to ignore and underfund public transit expansion.
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