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National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

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Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#51

Post by blahblahblah »

jim_h wrote: post #42

If you opt-out, please be respectful to the TSA security people. They're just working and can't change the policies for you. Most of them are not in high positions and can't just walk away and find another job the next day/week. So they're not quitting no matter how rudely you treat them. No point to it and it'll just make them grumpy towards you and everybody after you. It's best to just talk to them like a regular…

Actually, I'm kind of surprised that no TSA agents have fought this and turned the situation into a hostile work environment lawsuit payday yet.

Coming soon to a courtroom near you...

Attorney: Could you please tell the court in your own words about the events leading up to your termination from TSA?

Plaintiff: I refused to perform enhanced pat-down procedures on the grounds that this procedure constituted criminal sexual conduct. I was repeatedly reprimanded for my refusal to participate in illegal conduct and subsequently terminated for this...

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#52

Post by Gibbon »

I'm emigrating from Canada to New Zealand and we're flying on Nov. 25.

Since I'm near the border, we're flying from Detroit to Fort Worth and then LA.. I am not looking forward to this flight.

I've already had dozens of medical x-rays in the past few months, and don't particularly want to get another dose, however low it may be.

On the other hand, opting out sounds really unpleasant. I especially don't want my wife potentially suffering that indignity at the hands of a male TSA agent (as some people have reported).

I don't think I have the balls to opt-out this time around.. I just want to survive the 48 hour trip intact, with all my luggage.. but this will likely be the last time I fly through the US.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#53

Post by sp332 »

blahblahblah wrote: post #2

I hope they're successful in getting TSA's ridiculous policy changed. One shouldn't have to choose between being unnecessarily irradiated and virtually strip-searched or being sexually assaulted (in any other context, TSA's new pat-down procedures would be classified as criminal sexual conduct) just to ride on an airplane.

It's just a normal pat-down, the kind that might be given by an officer of the law to someone reasonably suspected to be armed and dangerous. It's not like the pat-downs themselves are unusual, it's that the TSA doesn't have cause (or maybe even authority) to do these pat-downs.

Also, it's not sexual, so it can't possibly be sexual assault. Assault or battery is about the most you could claim.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#54

Post by hyperbovine »

I'm so tired of seeing pictures like this: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/11/airpor...

Classic red herring. You couldn't sneak a pistol through security before 9/11, you couldn't do it after 9/11, and the NakedTron 5000 doesn't do a damn thing to change that.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#55

Post by barrkel »

trunnell wrote: post #33

This protest might not slow down security lines. These new scanners are pretty slow to begin with. When I went through SFO recently it took 1-2 minutes to go through the scanner. The slowness seemed to be a combination of the instructions given to the flyer for positioning themselves inside the device, the slowness of the device itself, and the slack in the line. In any case, I remember thinking that a pat-down might…

The speed of the magnetometer lines have always been gated by the hand-luggage x-ray machine, in my experience; usually a magnetometer arch is shared by two lines. To hear some people claim that these things will speed up the lines is pretty ludicrous, especially considering that you need to take more stuff out of your pockets.

And then there's the wonderful cost implications. The machines are already 20x more expensive than the magnetometer arches, as I understand it, so the total cost to make up the numbers (to get the speed back through parallelism) could be 40x or more, tens of millions for every decent-sized checkpoint.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#56

Post by barrkel »

sp332 wrote: post #53
blahblahblah wrote: post #2

I hope they're successful in getting TSA's ridiculous policy changed. One shouldn't have to choose between being unnecessarily irradiated and virtually strip-searched or being sexually assaulted (in any other context, TSA's new pat-down procedures would be classified as criminal sexual conduct) just to ride on an airplane.

It's just a normal pat-down, the kind that might be given by an officer of the law to someone reasonably suspected to be armed and dangerous. It's not like the pat-downs themselves are unusual, it's that the TSA doesn't have cause (or maybe even authority) to do these pat-downs. Also, it's not sexual, so it can't possibly be sexual assault. Assault or battery is about the most you could claim.

TSA agents aren't officers of the law.

You might consider it non-sexual, but try asking a rape victim instead. I most certainly consider someone touching my private parts a sexual assault; and the fact that it's institutionalized doesn't make it any less a scandal. Don't be under any illusions; people who enjoy this kind of thing will see it as an interesting alternative career choice to school janitor etc.

If the scanners become mandatory here in the UK for going to the US (they aren't on Virgin Atlantic flying out of Heathrow, last time I checked, a couple of weeks back), I'll probably have to quit my job, as I will no longer want to travel.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#58

Post by robfitz »

Gibbon wrote: post #52

I'm emigrating from Canada to New Zealand and we're flying on Nov. 25. Since I'm near the border, we're flying from Detroit to Fort Worth and then LA.. I am not looking forward to this flight. I've already had dozens of medical x-rays in the past few months, and don't particularly want to get another dose, however low it may be. On the other hand, opting out sounds really unpleasant. I especially don't want my wife p…

I've opted out twice and it really hasn't been a big deal. It's slightly slower, but the security guys treated me fine. It was no more invasive than being patted down before entering a nightclub to make sure you aren't carrying anything pointy.

Given your health concerns, opting out seems like the clear choice (though bear in mind I'm pulling from a sample size of only 2).

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#59

Post by daimyoyo »

I would recommend taking this one step further. Let's all find a day in the next few months where we simply refuse to fly. We can call it "dignity day". If air traffic was significantly down because of this, the airlines would start pressuring the TSA to back off. After all, keeping shareholders happy trumps whatever safety concerns we might have.

Re: National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners

#60

Post by sp332 »

barrkel wrote: post #56
sp332 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a normal pat-down, the kind that might be given by an officer of the law to someone reasonably suspected to be armed and dangerous. It's not like the pat-downs themselves are unusual, it's that the TSA doesn't have cause (or maybe even authority) to do these pat-downs. Also, it's not sexual, so it can't possibly be sexual assault. Assault or battery is about the most you could claim.

TSA agents aren't officers of the law. You might consider it non-sexual, but try asking a rape victim instead. I most certainly consider someone touching my private parts a sexual assault; and the fact that it's institutionalized doesn't make it any less a scandal. Don't be under any illusions; people who enjoy this kind of thing will see it as an interesting alternative career choice to school janitor etc. If the sc…

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said they might not have authority. But they have been delegated that authority by the DHS, which does have cabinet-level executive status. So it's arguable.

It's interesting how you consider any interaction with your "private parts" to be sexual in nature. If you lean against a table, are you having sex with it? Are you having sex with your underwear right now?? The agent isn't touching you sexually, so it's not sexual assault.

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