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IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

discuss.haiku-os.org

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Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#51

Post by mike_hearn »

joshumax wrote: post #23
Apocryphon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Valve has hackathons and if the Proton guys want a new challenge.

I worked at CodeWeavers during the development of Proton, and one of the biggest hurdles for getting Wine (and therefore Proton) running on Haiku is the memory layout of Haiku[1] and subsequent failures of mmap(). I have a Haiku port that runs basic applications out-of-tree, but many Win32 programs crash on Haiku still. 1: https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku

You could just bypass the preloader completely. It exists only to work around the Linux ASLR implementation which would otherwise tend to place DSOs randomly in the address space, potentially overlapping regions that Windows keeps reserved. If Haiku doesn't implement ASLR, or lets you easily disable it, or alternatively would accept patches to ensure its address space layout is always Win32 compatible (better!) then the preloader could be disabled.

However if mmap is more significantly broken then Haiku needs work - Wine does need the ability to map things into the address space at the requested locations and actually get it.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#52

Post by fstephany »

raitucarp wrote: post #14

Awesome. But, I suggest Haiku people need hire ui/ux for their default theme/window. It will sure attract more user to try this OS as alternative.

This is pretty sbujective but I really dig the pixel art of the icons and the general look & feel of the windows.

If Haiku was a Linux Window Manager, I would use it in a heartbeat.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#53

Post by badsectoracula »

captainbland wrote: post #6

That's a really impressive achievement I think, those are complex applications running on complex stacks. It's certainly a big step in the direction of making Haiku a system that a developer could plausibly run for the development of cross-platform applications. This coupled with the Libre Office port last year means there's a pretty strong selection of applications for it cropping up.

But what is the point of using Haiku if you are going to run (desktop) Java applications? The main appeal of it is its native API, use of multithreading everywhere and how integrated the applications are. If you are going to treat it as just a window manager with a different theme, then why not just use XFCE - it even has a BeOS-like theme.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#54

Post by pjmlp »

badsectoracula wrote: post #53
captainbland wrote: post #6

That's a really impressive achievement I think, those are complex applications running on complex stacks. It's certainly a big step in the direction of making Haiku a system that a developer could plausibly run for the development of cross-platform applications. This coupled with the Libre Office port last year means there's a pretty strong selection of applications for it cropping up.

But what is the point of using Haiku if you are going to run (desktop) Java applications? The main appeal of it is its native API, use of multithreading everywhere and how integrated the applications are. If you are going to treat it as just a window manager with a different theme, then why not just use XFCE - it even has a BeOS-like theme.

Which happens to be the fallacy of GNU/Linux desktop as well.

The beauty of each desktop centric OS is the whole platform, the set of SDK languages, the respective frameworks for exposing the OS and hardware features that make the desktop experience unique, and IDE developer experience.

If it is to run desktop agnostic apps, then anything can do.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#55

Post by chaz6 »

captainbland wrote: post #6

That's a really impressive achievement I think, those are complex applications running on complex stacks. It's certainly a big step in the direction of making Haiku a system that a developer could plausibly run for the development of cross-platform applications. This coupled with the Libre Office port last year means there's a pretty strong selection of applications for it cropping up.

If you can now run your development tools on Haiku, what would it take to make Haiku a server platform for running your server-side applications?

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#56

Post by zozbot123 »

dingdingdang wrote: post #50
orionblastar wrote: post #43

Haiku is progressing great. Anyone heard of AROS which is a rewrite of AmigaOS? I try to keep up with free and open source Windows alternatives for the PC. We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on a system they can't afford to upgrade. Just the basic word processing Internet surfing and email. ReactOS is progressing as well. OSFree the OS/2 rewrite seems slower but using the M4 ker…

> We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on a system they can't afford to upgrade. My personal experience from large scale transition from Windows 7 to Linux Mint at work indicates that people ABSOLUTELY can use Linux - the UI is (unlike Win10) stable and things do not move around, settings don't change themselves on upgrades. And, importantly, updates can be set to be silent and au…

This, so much. All you need is (1) how to backup and restore your data, and (2) how to reinstall the system from scratch should it get hosed. The typical "Windows" way of system administration, haha... but hey, it works. And Debian with an LXDE session is literally snappier than XP, on XP-class hardware! (Just don't skimp on the RAM - less than 1GB doesn't cut it anymore if you're surfing the modern web. And stay on the "stable"/LTS update channel - none of that newfangled "rolling release", bleeding-edge silliness)

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#57

Post by gecko »

chaz6 wrote: post #55
captainbland wrote: post #6

That's a really impressive achievement I think, those are complex applications running on complex stacks. It's certainly a big step in the direction of making Haiku a system that a developer could plausibly run for the development of cross-platform applications. This coupled with the Libre Office port last year means there's a pretty strong selection of applications for it cropping up.

If you can now run your development tools on Haiku, what would it take to make Haiku a server platform for running your server-side applications?

Haiku is a single-user system, so effectively any privilege escalation gets you root. That's enough right there for me to keep it off a server.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#58

Post by mhd »

pjmlp wrote: post #54
badsectoracula wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what is the point of using Haiku if you are going to run (desktop) Java applications? The main appeal of it is its native API, use of multithreading everywhere and how integrated the applications are. If you are going to treat it as just a window manager with a different theme, then why not just use XFCE - it even has a BeOS-like theme.

Which happens to be the fallacy of GNU/Linux desktop as well. The beauty of each desktop centric OS is the whole platform, the set of SDK languages, the respective frameworks for exposing the OS and hardware features that make the desktop experience unique, and IDE developer experience. If it is to run desktop agnostic apps, then anything can do.

There's always been some leeway in that. Both the original Mac OS and Windows had a variety of languages targeting it, but they tended to strive towards emulating the core SDK experience (if they weren't a wrapper around it).

Unix had it different with there being no core experience in the first place -- X11 being a glorified terminal multiplexer plus xeyes. Whether it was the commercial Unices with OpenLook/NeWS vs Motif/CDE or later Linux with Qt vs Gtk. Not that there wasn't a chance -- at one time Motif won over the commercial sector and if it would've been available with the same license as Xlib/Xt, GTK would've never been developed.

But that seems to be a thing of the past. These days the web forced us to give up all platform-specific UI expectations -- heck, any expectations of having a proper UI in the first place. And thus applications are all over the place, Electron being just one particularly heinous culprit. Material UI on the desktop. Plenty of applications starting up web-based interfaces in the browser.

On the one hand, as you say, this doesn't make the particular desktop matter anymore, it's more a vehicle of getting your wifi driver to work properly and load the browser. So one could use Linux or even Haiku without any big losses. On the other hand, if everything's pastel-colored oatmeal, there's no big benefit from a neat, unified, C++ desktop experience that BeOS was aiming for.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine HTML stomping on your face -- forever.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#59

Post by mhd »

zapzupnz wrote: post #35
agildehaus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it different than macOS?

I think macOS/Mac OS X was always known for fantastic Mac-specific software as opposed to just ports of user apps from, say, Linux — probably because Mac OS X was the successor to Mac OS 9. So Mac OS X inherited one userbase that appreciated platform-specific software. Haiku doesn't really have anything to inherit like that so until people start making Haiku-specific software, that could be an issue for seeing great…

In the beginning, there was also a good deal of people coming from NeXt and finally finding a target audience. Some of those applications fared even better, as they were basically Cocoa already, whereas some of the older Mac apps were more baroque, not supporting all the nice new features and having a more outdated look. So the "newcomers" served as important style guides. (Let's not even mention the backlash against further outliers like Java Swing apps or RealBasic)

For a while, the OS X app space was rather "pure". A minimalistic aesthethic, plenty of small opnionated productivity applications. Apple itself didn't wreck or disrupt it too much (looking at you, MS Office).

Then mobile happened.

Re: IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku

#60

Post by tonyedgecombe »

chaz6 wrote: post #55
captainbland wrote: post #6

That's a really impressive achievement I think, those are complex applications running on complex stacks. It's certainly a big step in the direction of making Haiku a system that a developer could plausibly run for the development of cross-platform applications. This coupled with the Libre Office port last year means there's a pretty strong selection of applications for it cropping up.

If you can now run your development tools on Haiku, what would it take to make Haiku a server platform for running your server-side applications?

Hopefully not, it's better they focus on doing one thing well.
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