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The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

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Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#51

Post by vinceguidry »

stcredzero wrote: post #35
vinceguidry wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was described in the article. A lot of economic activity there is only a few steps removed from human trafficking. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons.

I just read the article, and I didn't see any mention of human trafficking. The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons. I think that summarizes the constant emotional undertones in this article. This article strikes me as a deliberate re-spinning of a story meant to be triumphal, making it the sneakiest…

> The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude.

Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get out of it. I'm not entirely certain where to draw the line.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#52

Post by cribbles »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit."

This is almost tautologically true. Who starts fighting because they want to avoid getting hit at all costs?

The author wants to examine _why_ Chan drives himself, over and over, to the brink of life-threatening injuries, while we HN commenters - most of us anyway - do not. He fairly persuasively argues that it's a mix of extreme C-PTSD, childhood abandonment, economic destitution, and a near total lack of alternative opportunities.

Can that still be inspiring? To whom? To do what? These are the questions the author wants to ask. We can quibble over the answers. But either way, I find this type of critical perspective more intellectually provocative than taking Chan's plain-faced recollection for granted.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#53

Post by the_af »

chaostheory wrote: post #45
the_af wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cost would be paid by Chan regardless of whether he became rich and famous I'm not sure. Maybe he wouldn't have had to be sold as an indentured servant, get beaten, be deprived of an education, and sleep on a mattress soiled with piss. Or maybe he would have died of starvation, who knows? Or maybe he would have moved with his parents to Australia, where the article mentions they went. It's definitely worth thin…

Your opinion seems to echo the author's so it was an obvious question, though I only expected to hear yours > Maybe he wouldn't have had to be sold as an indentured servant, Again, that wasn't his choice. There was no choice for Jackie Chan. That was his parents' choice. The only choice Jackie had is to either to focus on attaining his definition of success, while acknowledging the past; or to let the obsession of th…

> Your opinion seems to echo the author's so it was an obvious question

But it doesn't. I wrote a single paragraph, mostly describing what I thought was a key aspect of the article, and calling it "interesting". The author wrote a whole article addressing multiple things. I'm not even the submitter of the article! Your assumptions are unwarranted.

> neither you nor the author mentioned this until now which made your argument seem pointless.

But I didn't make any argument. Please re-read what I wrote and tell me what my "argument" was that seemed "pointless" to you.

It seems you are arguing with me because you can't with the author? I just wrote something about the actual content of the article, when other replies were "I loved Jackie Chan in Rush Hour!", which is unrelated to the topic.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#54

Post by vinceguidry »

cribbles wrote: post #52
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

> "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." This is almost tautologically true. Who starts fighting because they want to avoid getting hit at all costs? The author wants to examine _why_ Chan drives himself, over and over, to the brink of life-threatening injuries, while we HN commenters - most of us anyway - do not. He fairly persuasively argues that it's a mix of extreme C-PTSD, childhood abandonment, econ…

Could it just be because he likes it?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#55

Post by the_af »

jerf wrote: post #47
the_af wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the author but the main gist is that Jackie doesn't want to acknowledge his past hardships, and is unwilling to analyze whether they were justified or not. The author calls it his "blindspot". I'm not sure it's healthy.

Jackie lived his experiences. This author is, to the best of my knowledge, basically just some guy with a website byline. (Presumably he's had some sort of hardships in life, because nobody escapes unscathed, but I doubt they compare to Jackie's.) I'm not sure the author has all that much moral standing or skin in the game to make me care much about his opinion of Jackie Chan's life. He's welcome to it. I just don't…

What does it matter who the author of the article is? Some random nobody raising interesting issues about Jackie Chan's autobiography -- what he says, what he leaves unsaid -- seems valid to me.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#56

Post by vertline3 »

We have this tendency to look at successful people and think we can imitate them and have their success. I see Bill Gates is always giving a list of his favorite books of the year. Sorry Bill, if I read your books, I won't be a billionaire. Well Jackie Chan as great, talented, funny as he is. No matter what, I will never be him. Survivor bias and luck play a large role beyond what hard work and pain alone do.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#57

Post by PakG1 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

"Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit."

Unrelated, but I suppose this is why there is so much controversy and disagreement as to whether Floyd Mayweather actually is the greatest boxer ever (which he himself has claimed multiple times he is), as he puts so much effort into not getting hit (and some say he runs away from opponents, only fights them before or after their prime, never during their prime). But he does have that 50-0 record.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#58

Post by alistairSH »

vinceguidry wrote: post #51
stcredzero wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just read the article, and I didn't see any mention of human trafficking. The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. And I'm sure a lot of that goes on there as well, but it's hard to track for obvious reasons. I think that summarizes the constant emotional undertones in this article. This article strikes me as a deliberate re-spinning of a story meant to be triumphal, making it the sneakiest…

> The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. Just because you signed a contract doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to get out of it. I'm not entirely certain where to draw the line.

Particularly in the case of a minor, who has no say in the contract. Chan was sold into servitude while most of were still in primary school. The way I read it, he wasn't able to break free until his early-20s.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#59

Post by buildawesome »

jdietrich wrote: post #28
doitLP wrote: post #2

Here’s a really cool video breaking down exactly how Jackie sets up his stunt-action-comedy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ One thing that was particular interesting to me is how the setup always starts with him at an extreme disadvantage: no shoes, tied to a chair, hanging upside down, etc. I never noticed it before and it’s exactly what makes his action so enjoyable to watch. (The YouTube Channel is call…

The lack of respect Chan gets in the west is a travesty IMO. His fight choreography is rooted in the traditions Chinese opera while being constantly fresh, playful and imaginative. He shows absolute technical mastery, but there is always a sense of child-like joy underpinning that mastery. The fact that his films are often regarded as frivolous and lightweight says something profound about what is valued in our cultu…

I think the lack of respect in the west is due to his political views and ties to China.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#60

Post by darkerside »

vertline3 wrote: post #56

We have this tendency to look at successful people and think we can imitate them and have their success. I see Bill Gates is always giving a list of his favorite books of the year. Sorry Bill, if I read your books, I won't be a billionaire. Well Jackie Chan as great, talented, funny as he is. No matter what, I will never be him. Survivor bias and luck play a large role beyond what hard work and pain alone do.

This attitude may be technically correct, but it's not very productive. Why emphasize your own lack of control over your life? It's certainly possible for it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if the inverse is not true.
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