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Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

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Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#51
> The elephant in the room is the transition to proof-of-stake, an “environmentally friendly” way to secure the chain. (If this was the plan all along, why create a proof-of-work chain first?)

Well, how would they do an ICO and get the money if they first developed it (and did it like Bitcoiners did - "for free")?

Sell that ICO, pump dat bxxx, exit in a low tax jurisdiction.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always tried to tell people that ask me about crypto currencies that not only do they not have any intrinsic value, but the only positive value that they have is entropy. I explained it like this over Christmas dinner, lets say I wanted to start a new commodity, for arguments sake lets say that this new commodity is based on matches. Matches have a value, you light them and they produce a certain amount of energ…

Send matches securely to anybody in the world, you say?

Look at how may people and companies lost crypto currency of one form or another. That suggests security is actually a major unsolved issues with crypto.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#53
post #20
post #18

By now the Ethereum bloat is so bad that cheaply running an individual node is practically impossible for a lay person. This is an important yet under-appreciated point. It's now extremely difficult to sync an Ethereum node from scratch. If the processes ever completes on commodity hardware, it takes weeks. And that difficulty will only climb as more and more stuff gets dropped onto the Turing-Complete "world compute…

It takes me about a day to sync parity on a consumer desktop with an ssd and a 7 year old i5 Intel cpu

I guess you're not doing a full sync. Here's an example of a person trying to do it:

https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/37348/parity-fu...

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#54
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in the _world_ has intrinsic value. Obviously, this an opinion, but I do believe it has strong epistemological backing. An easy overview of the opinion by wired: https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-has-no-intrinsic-value-n... , a 1970s era discussion by a historian economist: https://fee.org/articles/the-fallacy-of-intrinsic-value/ , and a deep dive the theory itself: https://mises.org/library/introduction-va…

Labor is the principal value of a currency. I'm guessing you are a libertarian. Maybe you should learn about how commerce, financial instruments, and debt work before saying money has no intrinsic value. Otherwise, if money has no intrinsic value then why work for it? Maybe we should go be communists. As Labor is the principal value of currency, so is debt the obligations of its members. When you get a loan you are n…

I would argue (though this is getting more philosophical) that time is what has intrinsic value (or rather, time saved), since we all have a limited amount of time.

Labour is how time gets saved -- one person spends their time doing something so that another person doesn't need to spend their time on it, and thus the person spending the time gets some money as a token for the time they spent.

(But I agree with your point.)

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always tried to tell people that ask me about crypto currencies that not only do they not have any intrinsic value, but the only positive value that they have is entropy. I explained it like this over Christmas dinner, lets say I wanted to start a new commodity, for arguments sake lets say that this new commodity is based on matches. Matches have a value, you light them and they produce a certain amount of energ…

This is a creative metaphor, but like most metaphors, not all of the novel properties of the original system were preserved in the metaphor. If you want to improve the metaphor find a way to make it so that as a holder of matches I can have very high confidence that there is an upper limit of N matches that can exist at any given time extending far into the future. Also add some way for me to transfer my matches to a…

Yes, lets create a scarcity of all of our burned matches! If my calculations are correct, at 21m bitcoin would be the equivalent of 15,405,810,000,000 used matches. That's a great idea. Sadly, you'll just have to wait 24h for my antique wire transfer.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#56
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kind of asked a loaded question, but to answer your question; whatever thing needs decentralization.

PoW will centralize towards cheap energy access. PoS will centralize to majority stake holders. I would bet that such energy access or stake follows a power law distribution. So long as that is true, neither system will ever provide decentralization.

Okay, but what happens to energy prices when enough miners flock to low-cost centers? Prices go up. In a long enough time horizon, opportunity to take advantage of energy prices basically gets competed away. I haven't read much on energy production, but as far as I know there are many places on the planet that cheaply produce renewable energy.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#57
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in the _world_ has intrinsic value. Obviously, this an opinion, but I do believe it has strong epistemological backing. An easy overview of the opinion by wired: https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-has-no-intrinsic-value-n... , a 1970s era discussion by a historian economist: https://fee.org/articles/the-fallacy-of-intrinsic-value/ , and a deep dive the theory itself: https://mises.org/library/introduction-va…

Labor is the principal value of a currency. I'm guessing you are a libertarian. Maybe you should learn about how commerce, financial instruments, and debt work before saying money has no intrinsic value. Otherwise, if money has no intrinsic value then why work for it? Maybe we should go be communists. As Labor is the principal value of currency, so is debt the obligations of its members. When you get a loan you are n…

Labor is a sacrifice of ones time, and one expects to receive compensation for that sacrifice. The medium of compensation could be anything, and is certainly not limited to regional monopoly currencies.

The key distinction between the currency and Bitcoin is the government's use of force to mandate that people accept the currency as a unit of payment for services (and use it to pay taxes). There is no intrinsic value. After all, it is merely paper or digital numbers.

It's amusing that anti-bitcoiners will use the government force argument to try and push people away from bitcoin. "Bitcoin is no good because it is not backed by government force."

When people hear that, they say. "Oh my god, really? How can I get some?"

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#58
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor is the principal value of a currency. I'm guessing you are a libertarian. Maybe you should learn about how commerce, financial instruments, and debt work before saying money has no intrinsic value. Otherwise, if money has no intrinsic value then why work for it? Maybe we should go be communists. As Labor is the principal value of currency, so is debt the obligations of its members. When you get a loan you are n…

I would argue (though this is getting more philosophical) that time is what has intrinsic value (or rather, time saved ), since we all have a limited amount of time. Labour is how time gets saved -- one person spends their time doing something so that another person doesn't need to spend their time on it, and thus the person spending the time gets some money as a token for the time they spent. (But I agree with your…

I disagree, if time were the intrinsic value then all workers would receive the same disbursement amounts. As Labor also requires Skill and Proficiency those combine to adjust the value of the Labor.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#59
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes me about a day to sync parity on a consumer desktop with an ssd and a 7 year old i5 Intel cpu

Similar experience with geth on an m5.large EC2 instance and 500G SSD. The SSD vs. hard disk distinction is key. I ran into the "it will literally never complete" issue trying to sync to an external HD on my home MBP - I ran it for about a week and it didn't work. Tried parity as well, same result. Once I decided I'd just rent a big SSD from Amazon I had no problem.

Were you passing --gcmode=archive --syncmode=full flags? If not, then it's just a light node.

Here's an example: https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/issues/16237

,,Seems like it does indeed proceed but very slowly. After 12 days on the 96gig ram machine I am finally at block 4732597... I will report back how long it takes to finish.''

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#60
post #45
post #18

By now the Ethereum bloat is so bad that cheaply running an individual node is practically impossible for a lay person. This is an important yet under-appreciated point. It's now extremely difficult to sync an Ethereum node from scratch. If the processes ever completes on commodity hardware, it takes weeks. And that difficulty will only climb as more and more stuff gets dropped onto the Turing-Complete "world compute…

> This is an important yet under-appreciated point. It's now extremely difficult to sync an Ethereum node from scratch. If the processes ever completes on commodity hardware, it takes weeks. And that difficulty will only climb as more and more stuff gets dropped onto the Turing-Complete "world computer." This is simply untrue. I recently synced an Ethereum node on a 2 year old desktop computer. Took ~1 day.

You did a fast sync, not a real full sync (which verifies the transactions since the genesys block).
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