Earlier quoted context omitted.
Going back to google makes sense as my intention is to read the news of the day, not cross reference. Stack behavior would drive me crazy here.
I suppose, but that sort of reinforces the real purpose of AMP. No publisher in their right mind would give up the top part of their page and enable left/right swipe to navigate to competitors, give up the back button control, etc. It's basically a protection racket. Pay up (in control terms), or get pushed down the search results page. Feels a lot like the old "digg bar" ( https://moz.com/ugc/die-diggbar-die-die-sho…
Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
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Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#52Front end engineers are not selected for their skills in understanding algorithms and data structures. It's quite easy to speed up a web site if you understand how CPU works on a low level and how Javascript is compiled to machine code, but it requires a lot of knowledge.
Haha what? You absolutely do not need to understand how a CPU works to make a fast site. 90% of the job is getting rid of shitty third party ad and tracking code, something most front engineers don't control. Beyond that most is just sensible practices. In depth knowledge of the DOM would serve you a lot better than knowing about CPUs. What triggers a repaint, how you can avoid it, and so on.
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#53Front end engineers are not selected for their skills in understanding algorithms and data structures. It's quite easy to speed up a web site if you understand how CPU works on a low level and how Javascript is compiled to machine code, but it requires a lot of knowledge.
It's in the second part of your statement where you're completely and totally wrong. Speeding things up on the whole does not require a lot of knowledge, and it does not require understanding how the cpu works at a low level and how javascript is compiled to machine code. Knowing how that stuff works can help you squeeze the last 1% of optimization out of code, but in practice, you get the first 99% of speed from decisions:
- Which frameworks do you use?
- What "add-ons" that are key to business do you end up embedding in the front-end and how much page size and slow down do they add?
- Where are your hot loops? Are you doing anything expensive inside them?
- Do you have things that are synchronous where they could be in parallel?
- How much eye candy are you adding to the page? Does it all need to be there?
- How much CSS are you using? Are you using it in a manner where CSS optimizations can do heavy lifting?
- What does the frontend and the backend API contract look like? Are there places where excess requests are occurring, and could they be rolled up so that there is less waste?
You may have noticed that many of these decisions boil down to architectural concerns as well as product and business level decisions, which are tangentially related to the labor of front-end engineering. I don't want to lob ad-hominems at people, but I find this kind of attitude one of the most tiresome parts about certain parts of the engineering community. There's this haughty, holier than thou mentality that places data structures and algorithms at the very top of engineering skills. There's a giant world out there where those skills are not at the top of the hierarchy, and actually are least useful because any sufficiently advanced development there ends up being commodified and available as open source software or as a paid SaaS (IE AWS).
Based on this short, flippant comment, it's obvious you actually have no idea how to actually speed up a web site because you have no idea about what the actual top ten things are that you'd do to speed it up in any kind of commercial production usage. What's even worse is that instead of trying to figure out something you don't know, you're instead making up an answer that sounds reasonable but is actually completely wrong and something any experienced frontend or full-stack engineer would understand is poor judgment and an ineffective approach. This is an extremely dangerous attitude to allow into an organization, because you end up with a culture where people are focused on one-upping each other and attempting to look elite as opposed to pragmatically arriving at the right approach for the problem, specific to all of its constraints. I've worked on these kinds of teams before, and it ends up being a miserable waste of time for everyone involved, and I've endeavored to work on teams that don't behave this way and to create teams that don't suffer from this.
Any engineer that gave this kind of a response to an interview question of "We've got a web app that's slow on the frontend and exhibiting XYZ symptoms -- how would you determine the root cause and diagnose it" would be rejected on the spot by me. That's the kind of attitude that can cause engineering organizations millions of dollars a year in engineering resource misallocation.
As a professional community, we need to evolve away from attitudes like yours. They symbolize an idealized, fictional world that is anything but the pragmatic reality of what good software engineering is.
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#54In terms of performance... this is a situation where the AVERAGE AMP site is much faster than the AVERAGE site not using AMP... but that's a rigged game given the volume of non-optimized WordPress junk and god-knows-what coming from the typical advertising server (images, video, scripts).
A well-optimized site run by knowledgeable and balanced adults will see a moderate improvement in speed; this is assuming you leaned out the pages already and kept the advertising cruft on a short leash. You can generally beat AMP's load times with some elbow grease.
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#55Here's the reality. The Taboola news carousals at the bottom of most slow loading actual news sites are filled with total junk. One page per image websites, super slow, adblock goes crazy. I've literally NEVER had a good experience with these "Stories you may like" Google does something with a news carousel that loads fast and the content isn't crap. I get why publishers running things like taboola think it's terribl…
This, a thousands times. For both Taboola and Outbrain it's clickbaity trash - usually misleading and low quality content. They're designed to "disrupt" so that people click on them and have in the past featured on blatantly false news stories. I'd honestly be ashamed to work at one of these sort of organisations and it further underlines how awful the web experience can be if you're not using an ad blocker.
It's no surprise to me that AMP is popular among users if news sites are not including such garbage in their AMP renditions.
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Going back to google makes sense as my intention is to read the news of the day, not cross reference. Stack behavior would drive me crazy here.
I suppose, but that sort of reinforces the real purpose of AMP. No publisher in their right mind would give up the top part of their page and enable left/right swipe to navigate to competitors, give up the back button control, etc. It's basically a protection racket. Pay up (in control terms), or get pushed down the search results page. Feels a lot like the old "digg bar" ( https://moz.com/ugc/die-diggbar-die-die-sho…
Publishers usually do not make good decisions. That behavior is for users and (IMHO) it's great.
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#57It already sounds toxic. Instead of loading your page suddenly I load a google wrapper that includes some parts of your page. Doesn't that sound like a red flags for anybody? Does it sound less toxic if I call it "free and open google wrapper build on existing technologies"?
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#58Here's the reality. The Taboola news carousals at the bottom of most slow loading actual news sites are filled with total junk. One page per image websites, super slow, adblock goes crazy. I've literally NEVER had a good experience with these "Stories you may like" Google does something with a news carousel that loads fast and the content isn't crap. I get why publishers running things like taboola think it's terribl…
> The Taboola news carousals at the bottom of most slow loading actual news sites are filled with total junk. This, a thousands times. For both Taboola and Outbrain it's clickbaity trash - usually misleading and low quality content. They're designed to "disrupt" so that people click on them and have in the past featured on blatantly false news stories. I'd honestly be ashamed to work at one of these sort of organisat…
The difference? I have an ad-blocker in Firefox, but not in Google's app.
So Ad-blocking > AMP > Regular (as far as user-experience from a speed perspective). Obviously Google has a lot of incentive to make sure people don't go the ad-blocking route.
Though not sure what is keeping ad-blocking from growing given its superiority - likely just a lack of awareness about the option. If ad-blocking ever did grow massively though, the internet would change in ways we haven't yet seen. Either ad-serving companies would win the arms battle and ad-blockers would become ineffective, or, the web would have to move to a new payment model (Brave-like perhaps).
I'm not entirely sure what the ideal is - likely a model where users can choose between ads or micropayments is the most pragmatic world.
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The Taboola news carousals at the bottom of most slow loading actual news sites are filled with total junk. This, a thousands times. For both Taboola and Outbrain it's clickbaity trash - usually misleading and low quality content. They're designed to "disrupt" so that people click on them and have in the past featured on blatantly false news stories. I'd honestly be ashamed to work at one of these sort of organisat…
It's interesting that so many people would enjoy AMP, because on my Android, viewing AMP sites in Google's main app often feels much slower than regular web browsing in Firefox for Android. The difference? I have an ad-blocker in Firefox, but not in Google's app. So Ad-blocking > AMP > Regular (as far as user-experience from a speed perspective). Obviously Google has a lot of incentive to make sure people don't go th…
Re: Google AMP case study: leads dropped by 59%
#60- decrease in average positions in SERPs on mobile - decrease in CTR on mobile - higher number of impressions - slight increase in total clicks
These measures are correlated. You can't just add them all together.
More impressions with the same amount of clicks means CTR (click through rate) will drop. Average position should also drop.
In this case we see a slight increase in total clicks and almost double impressions!
What if adding AMP makes Google show your site to a wider range of audience (more variance on target audience), while assigning your pages a lower weight (average position). You would get this behaviour. Lower average position but more clicks. This could lower your account creation and similar metrics because users are less interested.
What I mean is for some websites, getting more clicks would be great. If your total clicks is the goal, you would like these results (ex: page with ads). For search users, this is not good because we are shown pages that are less relevant.
I would like more explanations on mobile leads, account creation, and newsletter email sign-ups dropped. Why not show plots? Are these compared to total from previous months or percentages? We should also need to be able to compare both websites (mobile vs AMP) to see if there are any major differences.
I am not an SEO expert or web designer but I personally use AMP on my modest website. I don't even have a desktop version. Only AMP. It is simpler that way and took only an afternoon (for a css noob) to switch. What made me switch was their amp-img carousel lightbox. They are simple to use and just work. I tried a plethora of css/js carousel or album viewers and chose AMP. Bonus page speed and better mobile search cards.