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Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

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Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#51

Post by javagram »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #14
eight_ender wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more nuanced than that. Nvidia can write the drivers but releasing them without the blessing of Apple blows away any chance of them getting that sweet GPU contract back. Nvidia doesn't have much of a real world application outside of GPUs in enclosures to keep the drivers alive. The reason to keep drivers ready is the potential for a very large contract from Apple.

Word on the street is that Nvidia didn't get much value ($) out of working with Apple, so perhaps both parties aren't super interested. Same story with Nvidia and gaming consoles - last few gens of consoles have not used Nvidia chips and Nvidia doesn't see it as a big loss. The margins must be too low. Nvidia seems to aim for higher margin products these days with scientific computing/data center/deep learning/hardco…

“Same story with Nvidia and gaming consoles - last few gens of consoles have not used Nvidia chips and Nvidia doesn't see it as a big loss. The margins must be too low.“

The Nintendo Switch uses a NVIDIA Tegra, and NVIDIA put a decent amount of work into selling it - the NVIDIA Shield TV console is basically a tech demo for the thing after all.

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#52

Post by zimpenfish »

bjpbakker wrote: post #49
zimpenfish wrote: post #32

Headline blaming Apple and then, in the 8th paragraph, > At this point, it’s somewhat unclear exactly as to why NVIDIA GPU support isn’t present in Mojave

Since there's nobody else responsible for releasing Apple's closed source OS, what makes you think Apple is not to blame on this?

Perhaps Nvidia are writing drivers that don't conform to the guidelines Apple provide for approval? Maybe they're trying to pull a Logitech and include lots of data gathering that Apple object to. Or they're ignoring things like events from power management. Or their drivers are just shitty Mojave citizens. Or they're trying to force a Mojave equivalent of GeForce Experience to be installed with their drivers.

If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault?

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#53

Post by bjpbakker »

zimpenfish wrote: post #52
bjpbakker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since there's nobody else responsible for releasing Apple's closed source OS, what makes you think Apple is not to blame on this?

Perhaps Nvidia are writing drivers that don't conform to the guidelines Apple provide for approval? Maybe they're trying to pull a Logitech and include lots of data gathering that Apple object to. Or they're ignoring things like events from power management. Or their drivers are just shitty Mojave citizens. Or they're trying to force a Mojave equivalent of GeForce Experience to be installed with their drivers. If Nvi…

> If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault?

Because Apple sold the hardware /with/ the software, and now they completely broke that (<5 year old) hardware?

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#54

Post by stuntkite »

Apple 100% does not care about it's creative class anymore. I love my 2013 macbook air and pro. It's over though. If you need to get things done there are plenty of linux options.

Yes, all of the trackpads suck.

EDIT: Please down vote if that expresses your feels, but if you've got a new MBP or Mac Pro and feel supported by Apple I'd love to know why and what you use it for. I miss being able to buy a solid computer from them that I knew would be my workhorse for 2+ years and have a long life after.

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#55

Post by joshstrange »

bjpbakker wrote: post #53
zimpenfish wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Nvidia are writing drivers that don't conform to the guidelines Apple provide for approval? Maybe they're trying to pull a Logitech and include lots of data gathering that Apple object to. Or they're ignoring things like events from power management. Or their drivers are just shitty Mojave citizens. Or they're trying to force a Mojave equivalent of GeForce Experience to be installed with their drivers. If Nvi…

> If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault? Because Apple sold the hardware /with/ the software, and now they completely broke that (<5 year old) hardware?

Point of clarification, the article does not mention and I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold. In fact the article does seem to point out there is support for specific Nvidia cards that Apple sold or approved. Also I find it rather impossible to believe that Nvidia couldn't release something that would restore this ability. Would a user need to disable some security feature temporarily to be able to install it? Maybe, but that's the price you pay for unsupported hardware.

Apple got burned hard [0] by Nvidia and swore off them back around 2009. And Linux Torvald also called them out back in 2013ish IIRC. Nvidia is not a "good" company. Now people have be running things unsupported and now Apple closes that hole and they are all up in arms?

[0] https://gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-gr...

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#56

Post by joshstrange »

mikenew wrote: post #25
nisten wrote: post #7

New OS doesn't yet have drivers for some cards, got it.

"some cards" meaning the vast majority of discrete cards on the market.

Cards that Apple never formally supported and people knew that when they bought them. This is equivalent to hackintosh people getting worked up over Apple not supporting their MB/RAM/HD/PCI Card/etc.

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#57

Post by joshstrange »

elseless wrote: post #9

I found this out the hard way a month ago when I updated my hackintosh from 10.13 to 10.14. Never assume, even several weeks after a macOS release, that working Nvidia drivers will be available!

You live on the edge... I am on a legit mac and I'm still on HS for at least another month or two just to be safe.

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#58

Post by bjpbakker »

joshstrange wrote: post #55
bjpbakker wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Nvidia are being dicks in the face of reasonable requests, why would that be Apple's fault? Because Apple sold the hardware /with/ the software, and now they completely broke that (<5 year old) hardware?

Point of clarification, the article does not mention and I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold. In fact the article does seem to point out there is support for specific Nvidia cards that Apple sold or approved. Also I find it rather impossible to believe that Nvidia couldn't release something that would restore this ability. Would a user need to disable some security feature tempo…

> I have no reason to suspect that Apple broke hardware they themselves sold

In fact my own 15" MBP late 2013 has a GFX750, which is no longer supported according to Apple Support [1].

The worst for me is that this didn't withold Apple from pushing the update, so running Mojave with an external monitor is hardly possible now.

> Nvidia is not a "good" company.

Agreed. Neither is Apple.

[1] - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208898

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#59

Post by joshstrange »

throwawayhwjwge wrote: post #31

If you are a software developer, you have no excuse not buying a Linux compatible machine and using it as your daily driver. It really isn't that hard. I "downgraded" from a MacBook Pro 2017 non-touchbar because I realised I fundamentally disagree with Apple and the direction of our monoculture. Ironically I bought a second hand Levono ThinkPad Carbon X1 gen3, which was originally IBM, which Apple claim are 1984 dict…

> If you are a software developer, you have no excuse not buying a Linux compatible machine and using it as your daily driver.

False. I've tried it and it doesn't compare to OS X. Also this SOOOO rich in a thread about Nvidia (which SUCKS on linux). You think you are in driver hell on Mac? Oh boy, strap yourself in.

> Im nearly completely free of Apples ecosystem, thank god.

Enjoy your "freedom", I'll enjoy getting real work done without futzing with something that "Pretty much works (tm)" but has some kind of gotcha. I'm sure the developers here at my work who use a Linux desktop would tell you "It's great, I love it" but somehow I'm the lone developer who doesn't have display manager crashes, complete rebuilds needed, and graphics driver hell. Yeah, I think I'll stick to my "imprisonment".

Re: Apple Turns Its Back on Customers and Nvidia with MacOS Mojave

#60

Post by PascLeRasc »

apostacy wrote: post #44
stoobs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who the hell upgrades their entire production system to new OS releases without thoroughly testing beforehand? Especially if you're running completely unsupported hardware configurations. That's just extreme ineptitude at best, grossly negligent at worst. You just don't do that no matter the OS/hardware vendor - How many people have run afoul of Microsoft releasing broken patches into the wild? If you have mission-cr…

I'm really unhappy that Homebrew twists user's arms to update to the latest version of OSX. I'm glad that I waited a year before I updated to High Sierra, seeing as how there were APFS file corruption bugs, and a default root login bug! We need to stop being so enamored with Apple, and treat them with the same skepticism as Microsoft. Several people in my office have been bitten by the Mojave bug and are now regretti…

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I used Homebrew quite successfully this past summer on 10.7.5 - the only problem was that a few formulae weren't available for it. I've since upgraded that machine to El Capitan and Homebrew still works great and I haven't found anything that doesn't work, including CUDA.
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