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WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

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Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#51

Post by chc »

pmlnr wrote: post #16
onion2k wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously dislike the fact that an exteremely wide-spread open source project - wordpress.org - is driven by a for-profit company, wordpress.com. Every major open source project from the Linux kernel to a popular web framework has corporate sponsors that profit from the work done on it. Profit is a powerful motivator.

There's a difference when there are multiple contributors, as such with the linux kernel; in that case, the power is not with one single entity.

WordPress also has multiple contributors — it's just mostly under the control of Automattic, just like React is Facebook, TypeScript is Microsoft, and Go is Google.

Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#52

Post by sparkzilla »

GeneralMaximus wrote: post #14

I know a lot of people dislike PHP and WordPress, but I haven't found _anything_ that comes close to it in terms of sheer extensibility and plugin ecosystem. There's a plugin for pretty much anything you might want to do with a platform. I even moved my personal Jekyll-powered blog to WordPress a few years ago. My favorite thing about WordPress is that it's a known quantity. There's an easy to follow tutorial teachin…

I'm not sure why you are "excited" to see this release. For those of us who create Wordpress sites for clients, this is a mess. A comparison of Gutenberg to any of the major Page builders (Visual Composer, Divi, Enfold etc.) shows that Gutenberg is simply not ready for production. Features are missing, and there simply isn't the finesse you get from a page builder.

Gutenberg should have been offered as an extension, leaving core Wordpress alone. Now, we are going into the situation where an inferior page builder is part of core. That can only cause trouble.

Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#53

Post by o_____________o »

Here's the holy land:

- React components (Gutenberg)

- You can visually edit react components (Gutenberg)

- You can render the site with anything (Gatsby?)

Wordpress made some insane decisions with Gutenberg, like 1. storing the parameters (data you enter visually into the component) in an HTML comment (!!!) alongside the rendered HTML and 2. deciding to show the equivalent of "FATAL ERROR IN THIS COMPONENT" when the component author makes any adjustment to the markup output. Their idea for the latter was for you, the component author, to keep a deprecated version of any change alongside the new version.

They have the start of something great but crippled it with laughably bad decisions. Feels like... well, developing in the PHP ecosystem again.

More specific discussion: https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/10444

Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#54

Post by justinator »

GeneralMaximus wrote: post #14

I know a lot of people dislike PHP and WordPress, but I haven't found _anything_ that comes close to it in terms of sheer extensibility and plugin ecosystem. There's a plugin for pretty much anything you might want to do with a platform. I even moved my personal Jekyll-powered blog to WordPress a few years ago. My favorite thing about WordPress is that it's a known quantity. There's an easy to follow tutorial teachin…

Ever try redesigning a Wordpress site?

All those plugins are just a Big Ball of Mud, and trying to figure out how to apply a design to it, without breaking everything is kind of impossible. Change a theme? Lose settings, styles, major layout choices, menu locations. I can go on.

You basically have to develop your theme, apply it to the LIVE site, and fix the fires you find. Maybe a needed plugin now isn't compatible with whatever tech the new theme brings in. Well, you're hosed.

This is fine if you're just a blogger, but if you're running a business off your Wordpress site, it's a complete disaster. Like - we hosed a live Wordpress site simply by making duplicate dev site. I don't know how I'm supposed to work with that sort of environment.

But any suggestions are welcome.

Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#56

Post by ahoy »

motdiem wrote: post #45
leonk wrote: post #41

No mention here about Gutenberg's lack of support for accessibility standards. They pretty much went full steam ahead and left the accessibility team behind. See: https://rianrietveld.com/2018/10/09/i-have-resigned-the-word...

There's a whole paragraph in the linked article talking about accessibility - it looks to me that they're mostly planning to improve it in the next few point releases. It's too bad they couldn't bake it in from the start, but at least they seem to acknowledge it

not "couldn't" but "refused to"

Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#57

Post by citilife »

calibas wrote: post #48
josefresco wrote: post #39

As someone who hosts over 150 WordPress websites for small businesses ... I'm not thrilled about this release and the work it will entail given the editor overhaul. Another user posted this: https://make.wordpress.org/core/2018/12/06/5-0-gutenberg-sta... Also this posted by the author of Advanced Custom Fields, a very popular plugin: https://twitter.com/wp_acf/status/1070089217479307264

Supposedly, you just install this and you're good to go: https://wordpress.org/plugins/classic-editor/ I just tried updating to 5 on a test copy, as far as I can tell it didn't break anything.

The drop in boxes on 5 were too small on my system to edit (looked like it had a max width of 600px. This essentially forced my hand for the classic-editor because I couldn't drop in images and what not. Really strange error to have on the first day.

The boxes for editing should be based on percent (I shouldn't have to edit them).

Re: WordPress 5.0: A Gutenberg FAQ

#58

Post by lowercased »

CM30 wrote: post #43
dpau wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to help artists with setting up Wordpress portfolio sites. But the constant maintenance required (updating Wordpress & plugins, making sure that all plugins are secure and maintained, and checking after each update to make sure nothing was broken), as well as the rise of platforms like Squarespace, Wix & Weebly, means that I no longer recommend Wordpress for those types of clients. Artists just want to show an…

Is this a WordPress thing or a software with a developer ecosystem thing? Because that's always the catch with any script really. If you're using third party themes and plugins for anything, then you're putting trust in the developers of said themes and plugins that they know what they're doing coding and security wise. The exact same situation is true of everything from WordPress to Drupal to vBulletin and XenForo t…

With something like squarespace or wix (or even WP hosted), you're putting more power in the hands of the centralizing host, which is both limiting but also can reduce security issues.

The "sheer breadth of the ecosystem" in self-hosted WP is also where so many of the problems come in (compatibility between products, security issues, etc).

I'd argue it really is worse in the WP scene vs Drupal, partially because of the 'ease' of the code for newbs to get started. There's no culture of automated testing in the WP community at large, but some other platforms at least allow for that. There are people who write clean and well-tested WP products, but they're likely a minority, if you're looking at the ocean of stuff released over the last 5-10 years in the WP space.

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