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The next capitalist revolution

economist.com

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Re: The next capitalist revolution

#51

Post by stuxnet79 »

ci5er wrote: post #22
plainOldText wrote: post #9

What we need is a revolution in how people think about complex systems. People nowadays throw ideas around thinking they have a good understanding of how systems operate or should operate, when in fact most are clueless and fail to realize their ignorance. Society, economy, biological organisms, climate, cognition, etc are all complex systems, and no single person can claim to understand how they work, or the types o…

Exponential growth, feed back loops and side effects are all hard to reason about intuitively. "Business Dynamics" by Stermer was surprisingly good. "How we know what is not so" by Thomas Gilovich is a good tonic against arrogance (as is "Uncommon Sense" by Comer). I really like SystemAntics (John Gall - Good luck finding the original!) about, mostly, how our arrogance fails us when we try to define systems that are…

> I really like SystemAntics (John Gall - Good luck finding the original!)

There's a PDF scan of this book available through Google search. Not a great PDF scan so it's not a comfortable read but it's doable. Anyway, I was only going to sample the book from that scan but ended up reading most of it because it was so good. Devastatingly bleak. Accurate. Subtle humor here and there. Highly recommended to anybody who hasn't read it yet. I just need to find a hard copy though ...

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#52

Post by jodrellblank »

YZF wrote: post #36
chrissam wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment is as old as religion: it's the good old millenarian instinct. People constantly think the world is on the precipice of something transformational (good or bad). We'll see. My money is on things chugging along pretty much as they have been. I think this planet can take far more than we can throw at it. RE: the article - seems like common-sense recommendations but no specifics. We'd all like to see more…

I don't want to be around when we discover the planet can't actually take more than we can throw at it. We are unable to deal with minor pokes of the planet (storms, fires, earthquakes). Imagine what's gonna happen when it really pokes at us. We're probably gonna get wiped out. This planet is more fragile than people think and our power to control it is miniscule.

This planet is more fragile than people think

Citation needed.

It would be very difficult to totally wipe out humans - including all remote tribes, all underground sealed bunkers. I'm not saying that's perfect, but the less-bad it gets down from that kind of global catastrophe level, and the less sudden it is, the greater the number of humans who will survive it.

As for the planet, what does it mean for it to be "fragile"? It survived whatever impact split The Moon off.

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#53

Post by ilaksh »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #47
ilaksh wrote: post #25

This is one of those really tough areas where the problems are so significant and comprehensive that the approach people want to take immediately gets into their worldview and belief system. And no one readily changes their worldview, so its difficult to have productive discussions about such things. Nevertheless I will state my worldview and hopefully mention a few specifics that might be anchor points for an attemp…

>I think that Ethereum and related or similar technologies are moral causes because they allow us the possibility of upgrading core technologies used in society. Hilarious. What a desperate attempt to pump ETH by some poor bagholder. Ethereum doesn't exactly have the best track record of being a truly "decentralized" cryptocurrency, does it?

I own maybe $50 worth of Ethereum. It is decentralized though.

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#54

Post by jodrellblank »

claydavisss wrote: post #11

All of the sneering intellectuals are the ones buying the iPhones and ordering everything through Amazon Prime. How many high-minded Atlantic articles did you read on your iPad Pro today while waiting for your Tesla to charge? Lenin was right - the intellectual class is parasitic and must be eliminated for true progress.

In the 2017 fiscal year, Apple sold 216.76 million iPhones.

Doubling to cover ten years of sales figures; if the Earth has somewhere in the region of half a billion intellectuals, that seems pretty good.

And if you want to slaughter them all because they spent 1-2% of a USA average annual household income on a device you think is a complete measure of their life worth, that seems pretty bad.

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#55

Post by YZF »

jodrellblank wrote: post #52
YZF wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to be around when we discover the planet can't actually take more than we can throw at it. We are unable to deal with minor pokes of the planet (storms, fires, earthquakes). Imagine what's gonna happen when it really pokes at us. We're probably gonna get wiped out. This planet is more fragile than people think and our power to control it is miniscule.

This planet is more fragile than people think Citation needed. It would be very difficult to totally wipe out humans - including all remote tribes, all underground sealed bunkers. I'm not saying that's perfect, but the less-bad it gets down from that kind of global catastrophe level, and the less sudden it is, the greater the number of humans who will survive it. As for the planet, what does it mean for it to be "fra…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian%E2%80%93Triassic_extin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#56

Post by YZF »

ineedasername wrote: post #39
YZF wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to be around when we discover the planet can't actually take more than we can throw at it. We are unable to deal with minor pokes of the planet (storms, fires, earthquakes). Imagine what's gonna happen when it really pokes at us. We're probably gonna get wiped out. This planet is more fragile than people think and our power to control it is miniscule.

The planet has been around a while and taken a lot, certainly more than we can throw at it. Now, wether we can survive is another issue. But the planet will be just fine, especially by the standards of geological time.

I wouldn't bet we can't find a way to blow the planet up as well... But the comment is about our survival on this planet.

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#57

Post by plainOldText »

pjscott wrote: post #48
plainOldText wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they? Go to Amazon and search, say, for "scissors". Which one would you buy?

The top result, tagged as Amazon's Choice, is the "AmazonBasics Multipurpose Scissors - 3-Pack" for $6.09. They look like everything I want in general-purpose scissors, there are tons of reviews from people who really like them, and the fact that there are three of them means that unless Amazon has just completely dropped the ball on this one I'll be set for a long time in the scissors department -- and if not, hey,…

Well, if you fail to see the limitations and assumptions upon which your decision making process rests, then there's nothing of value I could add. Your decision making model via-a-vis scissors purchasing is perfectly acceptable. But it's just one model. Would you use the same model if you were, say, a tailor?

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#58

Post by balibebas »

plainOldText wrote: post #9

What we need is a revolution in how people think about complex systems. People nowadays throw ideas around thinking they have a good understanding of how systems operate or should operate, when in fact most are clueless and fail to realize their ignorance. Society, economy, biological organisms, climate, cognition, etc are all complex systems, and no single person can claim to understand how they work, or the types o…

The measurement of any system is only as good as the quality of the data being measured. When the Black Swan comes computational interconnectivity of these systems will ensure they all respond together and that is not a natural design if on a short-term timescale.

Re: The next capitalist revolution

#60

Post by jodrellblank »

YZF wrote: post #55
jodrellblank wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This planet is more fragile than people think Citation needed. It would be very difficult to totally wipe out humans - including all remote tribes, all underground sealed bunkers. I'm not saying that's perfect, but the less-bad it gets down from that kind of global catastrophe level, and the less sudden it is, the greater the number of humans who will survive it. As for the planet, what does it mean for it to be "fra…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian%E2%80%93Triassic_extin... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

"the only known mass extinction of insects.[9][10]" - one event that serious in 6 billion years and the planet wasn't destroyed, is your cite for how it's fragile? I'd expect tool-using humans to prepare better, survive more, and recover sooner than the creatures described there, wouldn't you?

"Cod: Over 35,000 fishermen and plant workers from over 400 coastal communities became unemployed.[..] federal government intervened, [..] income assistance [..] retraining of workers [..] Newfoundland has since experienced a dramatic environmental, industrial, economic, and social restructuring, including considerable emigration,[18] but also increased economic diversification, an increased emphasis on education, and the emergence of a thriving invertebrates fishing industry"

and the present status 20 years later is "recovering" up to possibly 10% of earlier levels - nothing like the million years to recover of the previous link.

Change happened, people adjusted to it in many ways. That sounds resilient, not fragile.

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