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China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

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Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#51

Post by zaru27 »

_ptgt wrote: post #49
zaru27 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

My wife was born and raised in China. I love her dearly, but my anecdata in large part concurs with yours. I should mention she's certainly conflicted and aware of some inconsistencies in a good number of her beliefs, even if she generally defends them or changes the topic when they come up. Though I'm not sure I agree with your suggested course of action.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting an outright ban - that would be a foreign policy gaffe of monumental proportions.

I also have no prejudice towards Chinese people, but I do feel that it is time for Americans to unite, realize that their is still hatred in the world (much of which is cultural), and toughen back up.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#52

Post by tehlike »

beginningguava wrote: post #39
zaru27 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The solution isn't a ban, it's requiring they become US citizens after they get their degree. Right now we educate them and send them right back. Meanwhile we let in 50,000+ uneducated illegal immigrants a month. It's moronic to allow top tier talent to go back to China rather than keeping them here to benefit the US

This is equivalent to buying citizenship with money. Sounded a bit too permissive.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#53

Post by ryanmonroe »

yters wrote: post #32

You think other nations actually buy into peaceful globalism? Everyone is just looking for an opportunity to be the next global superpower and rule the world, and only play nice-nice insofar as it furthers this goal. Global trade certainly does not guarantee global peace. We had global trade before WW1 and WW2, and it did nothing to stop the most horrific wars ever seen in history.

> You think other nations actually buy into peaceful globalism?

I hope you didn't use the word "other" to imply the US has a policy of "peaceful globalism". That would be wrong.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#54

Post by yters »

ryanmonroe wrote: post #53
yters wrote: post #32

You think other nations actually buy into peaceful globalism? Everyone is just looking for an opportunity to be the next global superpower and rule the world, and only play nice-nice insofar as it furthers this goal. Global trade certainly does not guarantee global peace. We had global trade before WW1 and WW2, and it did nothing to stop the most horrific wars ever seen in history.

> You think other nations actually buy into peaceful globalism? I hope you didn't use the word "other" to imply the US has a policy of "peaceful globalism". That would be wrong.

I certainly don't believe the US has such a policy. So, it surprises me when people think other countries have such a policy. Never has such a thing happened in the history of the world.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#55

Post by whorleater »

jl6 wrote: post #26
natch wrote: post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

There must be actual Chinese people here on HN. Can any weigh in on the reality of this? It’s a heavy charge to make against an entire population.

I'm Chinese and I can confirm that I am, in fact, a bloodthirsty monster fueled by vengeance as GP commented. In fact I am building a next-gen killbot in my basement as we speak. My education from the Chinese system has left me with no capability for individual thought and zero perspective of the outside world, and therefore all my fellow Chinese citizens are driven by stereotypical perceptions of Chinese culture, as Western internet commenters describe.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#56

Post by goldfeld »

zaru27 wrote: post #29
natch wrote: post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

[flagged]

Your thinking sounds like evil white western thinking.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#57

Post by natch »

baobrain wrote: post #50
jl6 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be actual Chinese people here on HN. Can any weigh in on the reality of this? It’s a heavy charge to make against an entire population.

I've been through 3-8th grade education in Chengdu at a top 100 school. The rest of my education was in the US, so I may be biased in one way or the other. From my perspective, I didn't really see it that way. Like any country, the history curriculum focuses on China's history, focusing primarily on ancient history (pre-Qing dynasty) for 3 semesters with one semester of modern Chinese history (Qing to present). While…

I should have made it more clear it's not all people, it's many people. And the problem is not the people, it's the system of government control of education, media, and now digital media at every level. You have been exposed to more voices (metaphorical) so you are one of the lucky ones. It's good to hear you find some of these voices to be inside of China still. I imagine being inside the system before encountering more viewpoints (grades 3-8 in your case) it would hard to see anything wrong. It's like being in the matrix and not knowing you're in the matrix.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#58

Post by sonnyblarney »

yters wrote: post #45
sonnyblarney wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone" not remotely everyone.

No one wants to get killed or suffer during war, but everyone wants to be the boss.

Not only do most people not want to be boss, most nations aren't trying to take over the world.

One interesting thing: since most nations are tiny, and they are so utterly dependent on playing ninjitsu against others because they have no hard power ... the though doesn't occur to them. It becomes part of the national identity.

Canada->US Scotland->England Nordics (i.e. Norwegian)->Germany/France

We're a little bit more meek (for better or worse) by default, not just in geopolitics, but culturally as well.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#59

Post by wycs »

China is full of extremely bright, hardworking people. It is not a nation of brain-washed automatons. I think AI alignment is some of the most important work in the world, and I think spreading and translating AI alignment research in China, such as Stuart Russell's work, may well be more important than direct AI-safety research. Because of their huge population and much higher average quantitative ability among Han Chinese, China has roughly 20 times the number of people capable of AI research, at least if you trust their PISA scores.

Should we get human-level AI, there is a good chance it will be made in China. As I don't think the Chinese are a nation of heartless automatons, I think spreading alignment ideas in China is not at all a hopeless task.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#60

Post by elefanten »

starbeast wrote: post #23
wnkrshm wrote: post #2

If I recall correctly, DARPA regularly hosts challenges where university teams try to solve problems that clearly have military applications. I know this can be seen as whataboutism but I feel the Western world might have gotten desensitized to its own activities in the sector, while looking warily at possible geopolitical competitors.

Whataboutism only really applies to state actors bickering when both are being hypocritical. After all, it was created as a US propaganda term for saying that it is hypocritical for the USSR to propagandise the hypocrisy of the USA, when both governments are hypocrites. Outside of that, it is called making comparisons and it is a completely valid thing to be doing.

It refers to the practice of changing the conversation (often towards accusation of hypocrisy) rather than answering a claim. Especially when the comparison is different in kind or scope, or just plain irrelevant.

Making comparisons is valid, but it doesn't make you incapable of responding to the original arguments.

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